Flooded G! Help!

[csguy0]

To make a long story short:

My G got flooded about a month ago (flooded while parked, not driving). Insurance has been handling my claim and I have been extra careful that it gets repaired correctly. The water was up to the top of my tires:-/

I'm wondering if there is anything I should be aware of as far as mechanics go. I am in the process of having insurance replace the clutch bearings (these were exposed to water for a long period of time). The mechanics checked the dipstick and didn't find any sign of water.

I'm thinking of having all my fluids replaced (oil, tranny, diff) just to be sure. Should I be worried about wheel bearings? Any other fluids that should be checked/replaced?

Remember, car was parked and was not started until a week after the incident.

Thanks,

David

See photos here: http://picasaweb.google.com/csguy0/FloodedG35

[joe603]

If insurance is handling it, I'd just tow it to a dealer and have them repair everything. If something else goes wrong, you can always take it back.

If you can, try to get a total loss...it will be very difficult to sell down the road.

[BrandAidDesignG35]

Sad, sad day 1+ for no water in the engine, man I would cry!!!

When you started it, can you explain the noises, or how it was different than before the flooding?

I thought God said in the Bible to Noah that there would never be another flood?? I do take that out of context slightly I know, but, that's a cryin shame.

[csguy0]

Insurance won't total it because water didn't get into the engine. The bill is up to $7,500 now. Which is still $14,000 below what the car is worth.

I wasn't happy about them not totaling it, but inside it will be practically new. I think I will feel a lot better about it once the fluids are all changed and looking normal.

The only noise I heard from the car (aside from the awful smell) was a scraping noise coming from the clutch whenever I would engage it. Infiniti determined it was coming from a bearing within the clutch assembly. Infiniti recommended that the clutch, flywheel, and bearings be replaced (which of course, insurance is paying for).

[rn79870]

I'm guessing here, but I'd say yes to the wheel bearings. I'd get them cleaned and repacked. I'd also have the break calipers disassembled and cleaned, especially if it was salt or brackish water. I'd also look at the u-joints, and check the rear end for water in the pumpkin. I'm guessing here, but anything that sat under water for any period if time is worth looking at.

[BrandAidDesignG35]

Definitely do the fluids, At least it's covered man, it would suck to have some weird loophole in your coverage... Good luck

[bentrod]

Let me put my insurance adjuster hat back on. The major concern you will have is not the fluids, albeit they should all be changed, but I would be more concerned with how high the water got inside the car. If the water got into the dash, I would demand for the car to be totalled. If they won't total it, I would demand a letter in writing that they will cover all repairs, water related, for as long as you own the car.
Even if it didn't get into the dash, there are sometimes many electrical matters involving the seats, the air bags et al that will work now, but as time goes buy corrosion will cause failures. There are often wires and sensors under the carpets that I would be concerned about as well as mildew that will settle into the foam of the seats. Remember, most of the stuff on the outside is made to get wet, not so inside!
Two big questions:
1. Fresh or salt/brackish water?
2. Water level inside the car?

[joe603]

Very good points!!!

[C-Kwik]

I'm surprised it wasn't totalled. Flooded cars have a lot of challenges, especially in cars with a lot of electrical components. As a former insurance adjuster, the two companies I worked for never tried to repair a flooded auto for these reasons. Frankly, I'm a bit surprised.

[Sentientbydesign]

Speed sensors
Brakes
Wheel bearings
Exhaust

The ECU sits about a foot up from the interior floor.

My I30 got very damp inside a few years back. I think it was a combination of humidity and some rain getting in through open windows (honestly can't remember the details).

Anyways, the smell never went away. Even after letting it all dry out and spraying tons of lysol and shampooing the carpets. Everytime it got moist again, the smell would come back.

[telcoman]

To make a long story short:

My G got flooded about a month ago (flooded while parked, not driving). Insurance has been handling my claim and I have been extra careful that it gets repaired correctly. The water was up to the top of my tires:-/

I'm wondering if there is anything I should be aware of as far as mechanics go. I am in the process of having insurance replace the clutch bearings (these were exposed to water for a long period of time). The mechanics checked the dipstick and didn't find any sign of water.

I'm thinking of having all my fluids replaced (oil, tranny, diff) just to be sure. Should I be worried about wheel bearings? Any other fluids that should be checked/replaced?

Remember, car was parked and was not started until a week after the incident.

Thanks,

David

See photos here: http://picasaweb.google.com/csguy0/FloodedG35

Sorry to hear what happend
INMHO that vehicle will never be right. It should have been totaled. Once its repaired get rid of it.

Telcoman

[SVTCOBRA]

Very sorry to hear!

I think I would hire bentrod to plead your case!!
Or, at least take his advice!!

[zozoka1212]

I would get a lawyer at this point. I would not take the car. The smell will be in it forever.I remember somebody had mildew in the A/C and Infiniti could not get rid off. What makes them think it will be ok. Also resale value dropped to 0. I would seriously talk to a lawyer and let them deal with it. Bottom line I would ask them in writing they are responsible to repair everything related to this years later. As somebody suggested it. Also would ask for money what you loose on the resale value. Once you ask for these they should just total it. From that point they will see how much it could cost for them.

Out of curiosity what is your insurence company? Just for reference so we won't go with them.

Thanks and sorry to hear your horrifying storry.

zozo

[csguy0]

Thanks for all the support...

The water was just rain water.... maybe mixed with some dirt.

I had the shop take out the interior for me to inspect underneath. Everything looked very good. There was some rust on some specific non painted surfaces. These surfaces were sanded, primed and painted to avoid future rust.

The shop replaced all the felt under my carpet, cleaned and shampooed everything. They also took the leather off the seats and cleaned the foam underneath. After all this, they then biologically "nuked" the inside of my car with Ozone. From what I hear, this process will even remove any traces of years of smoke inside a vehicle.

I checked several of the electrical connections that had been submersed and everything looked really good. All in all my car sat in standing water for about 2hours or so. it took about 5-6 hours to get it towed.

I'm really curious about getting a lawyer. I have no idea where to look or who I should call. I live in Orlando, Florida. If anyone knows how I can get help please speak up! Overall I've felt really good about the repairs done to my car thus far... But I do (slightly) worry about what I don't see.

Thanks again,

David

[csguy0]

Speed sensors
Brakes
Wheel bearings
Exhaust

The ECU sits about a foot up from the interior floor.

My I30 got very damp inside a few years back. I think it was a combination of humidity and some rain getting in through open windows (honestly can't remember the details).

Anyways, the smell never went away. Even after letting it all dry out and spraying tons of lysol and shampooing the carpets. Everytime it got moist again, the smell would come back.

What about the exhaust would I have to worry about? I tried to bring this up and I was told that these parts are made to get wet.

Geico is my insurance agency.

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

I think you need a new adjuster... I would call and have someone else look at the car... State everything that the guys have stated about the problems that you will have later down the road and all the loss of value!

Good luck! Insurance companies can be hell to deal with!

DJ

[telcoman]

Good lawyers are very expensive. I don't think there are any good ones in Florida? To spend hundreds of dollars an hour for a lawyer when millions are at stake makes economic sense. For a vehicle that been in a flood, I don't think so?

Telcoman

[bentrod]

Why pay a lawyer who will be clueless about the ramifications of your damages. All you'll get is a hole in your wallet that you will need to buy your new "G"! Why pay about $3000 for a leech, er I meant to say lawyer, when you already have a tool written into your policy that is almost free.
My first action would be to send a certified letter demanding that the car be totalled because the water level has compromised the vast array of electronics in this technologically advanced car. If the water did get to the top of the wheels, then it got into the dash! State in the letter that they will receive a high return on the salvage value to mitigate the loss (this will cover the monies they already spent). Next statement is to advise that if they are unwilling to admit their mistake of not totalling your car, then you wish to invoke the arbitration clause in your policy.
Next step is to seek out an expert (An Infiniti Tech would be my choice who you will have to pay - but MUCH less than an attorney) to act as your arbitrator. They will then have to select their arbitrator and the two arbitrators will have to select a disinterested, qualified umpire, whom you will have to pay half. If your insurer knows their rights, you will have to go to arbitration before you can sue them anyways.
By the way, what insurance company do you have so we can make sure we don't have to deal with such incompetence?

[TeflonG35]

What about the exhaust would I have to worry about? I tried to bring this up and I was told that these parts are made to get wet.

Geico is my insurance agency.

The outside of the exhaust is made to handle getting wet. But mass quantities are not supposed to go inside it. It may affect the cats or worse if it went further. Also it is made to handle splashes of water and then most of that is evaporated by the heat. Its not made to have water sit inside it for long periods of time.

[Jacko3]

csguy0:

I am going to go by my experiences with submerged cars in my comments, and I don't know how it specifically aplies to the G.

1. Judging by the water level, i am highly doubtful that the water made it to the wirings of your dashboard. Over many years of auto design and experiences, most auto manufacturers tend to hide wires right under the dashboard, covered by all sorts of plastics. I don't remember ever seeing them hiding wires on the floor, and this dates as far back as the 70s as far as i can remember--even my little Nissan has zero wires on the floor--remember some of these cars are sold in tropical areas of the world, that are more flood prone than others, and so auto manufacturers tend to take those conditions into account when designing their cars as well----the G was designed for the world and not just for North America. So, I wouldn't worry about those wires for now, but in time, rust could be a problem---and when they become a problem, it probably would affect only a small or single part more than others---problem with electrical problems is that they are a pain in the a$$ to detect. In addition, do you plan to keep this car forever? If you don't, then some kid who has been dreaming about having a G-35 Coupe all his life will readily buy it from you some day. So, don't worry about reselling the car in the future---I doubt you bought this car for reselling purposes---you probabaly bought it for driving--so focus on driveability.

2. I drive with my window down all the time, 24/7, 365/12, for years--I do the same with my G-35. If humidity and moisture was a real pain, then my little nissan and the other cars I have had in the past should have quit by now. Heck It rains inside of my little Nissan sometimes when I leave the windows down---never had a single electrical problem till date. And then, if it does occur, usually electric windows tend to go out first---the motors are relatively cheap to replace.

3. The one part I think needs immedate replacement is the entire clutch assembly. I cannot stress this enough. Clutch systems and water are perfect enemies---heat inside the bell housing will evaporate that water and some of it will surely cause metal parts to rust premarturely. Rust of any kind inside of your clutch can cause a catastrophic failure, and this could happen anywhere on a trip at high or low speeds---this is more of a life and death issue. Replace the clutch fluid as well.

4. As for your brakes, I am highly doubtful, any moisture made it through. In addition, your calipers have a plastic seal where the pistons push out from them. From caliper to brake lining, I think you will be okay. Just replace fuilds, brake pads and rotors simply beaucse a rusted rotor may cause uneven and excessive wear and performance. And judging from the picture, I really doubt the water made it to your brake fluid container--but just change it in order to be safe.

5. Just about all the sensors have seals. But, with 5 - 6 hours of flooding, some seals may have given way. I would ask you tell the technicians to check each and every replaceable and removable sensor. I would rather have new sensors than cleaned ones. It takes less than 1 micron of vapor, which somnetimes cannot be seen with the eye, to cause some of these sensors to give false read outs--they are very sensitive these days. Many years ago, in a lab, I used to work with all sorts of lab equipment that had sensors, and I was amazed at how even a small change in the state of the materials in their outer coating could interrupt effective readings. Of course, this includes replacing all your 4 02 sensors.

6. In my little Nissan, I have never replaced the in-cabin air filter or serviced the A/C since it was bought in over 14 years ago. A/C works perfectly well, and in-cabin air filter has never caused me any disease or hospitalization as a result of mold or humidity---I really don't know why people worry about these small issues.

7. You alternator---just get a brand new one--don't even bother to think about this. If it works today, it would probabaly give you the headache of your life in a few weeks--I have never seen an alternator that loves to be submerged. Now, surprisingly, alternators tend to do well, if sprayed with a water hose during washing of your car, as it removes dust that can cause electric charges around it, which sometimes can cause it to fail. However, one must run their car immediately to dry out the water under the hood--big difference between being submerged and a small/short spray with a water hose. I wash under the hood of my little Nissan all the time with a water hose right in front of my driveway--i spray everything under the hood--never had a starting problem.

8. As for your exhaust, if anything needs to be replaced, it would probabaly be your cats. The water may not affect the metals that cause the catalytic effect, but I think the water my affect the honey comb inside the cats, as i suspect they absorb moisture and degrade over time. So, I would suggest the cats are replaced. The rest of your exhaust is just a contraption of baffles and drive ways for gas to escape.

I don't think you have a lot to worry about. You engine block and heads are made of aluminium, and I doubt the water made it to that point. I certainly would not sell the car anytime soon. I would keep if for another 3 years and enjoy it properly. I never buy stuff to sell. I buy stuff to use or enjoy it. Same goes for my house. All those calculations on value, price, etc, are all a bunch of bull to me--too much headache to be worrying about. Just have faith and someone will come by and buy your car from you, if in your heart, you really really want to sell it. But most of all, I am sorry for this incidence. It will all be well. My humble and honest 2 cents. I am unworthy.

[TeflonG35]

Jacko types more then anyone.

[bentrod]

Jacko
Outstanding post! My background in flood claims handling has often seen airbag actuators under the center console (especially on Japanese cars), wiring for the power seats, climate control electronics, sound systems and more at a level below the top of the tires. I'm not saying you're wrong by any means, but our rules on Catastrophe's and normal flood claims were as follows:
1. Salt or brackish water - Over the rocker and before the dash - total it
2. Fresh water - Bottom of the dash and up - total it

We were a large insurer and our experience with the salvage return and the never ending supplements taught us to follow these guidelines.

[etschell]

all i can say is where was your car when this occurred? i live in florida and cant imagine a flood without heavy hurricane rain.

[csguy0]

My car insurance company is Geico. I will fill you all in with some more stunning information as I get more time.

My car was parked in downtown Tampa. Right off of Kennedy Blvd. A nasty storm ripped through which sent golf ball sized hail along with hellish rain on the area. The pressure was so great in the drainage system that I saw the big heavy caps become airborne.

I've never seen a storm like that in my 22 years in Florida.

What a day... July 6th

[telcoman]

My car insurance company is Geico. I will fill you all in with some more stunning information as I get more time.

My car was parked in downtown Tampa. Right off of Kennedy Blvd. A nasty storm ripped through which sent golf ball sized hail along with hellish rain on the area. The pressure was so great in the drainage system that I saw the big heavy caps become airborne.

I've never seen a storm like that in my 22 years in Florida.

What a day... July 6th

We got some of that up here yesterday


http://www.1010wins.com/Snow-i...66205

Telcoman

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

I was in down town that day and It was a bad storm... I was at UT getting my Mail and Took cover in One of the campus Buildings...

It was a good thing my G was on the second floor of the parking garage.... No Hail damage here!

I never knew it was so flooded in down town tho!

I see you live in Port Richey lol... My parents live in NPR Now that there are more and more tampa guys.. I think we need to do a meet soon!

We will wait until you get your car back lol

I have Geico too and it makes my want to switch!

DJ

[csguy0]

Hey all,

I appreciate all you responses. Things seem to be going better now. The smell is gone from my car, they replaced the clutch and the flywheel and got rid of all the little electronic grimlins.

My question now is what I do about the depreciation on my car. My Infiniti dealer tells me my car is worth around 10k because of the flood. (KBB is around 22k). Right now if I were to default on my loan, the bank wouldnt even be able to get all of their money back (I wouldn't do that, but it sounds strikingly familiar to the mortgage crisis).

I am thinking of writing along drawn out letter to Geico corporate and demanding I get payment to make up for the depreciation on my car due to the flood. My reasoning is that if they would have totaled my car... I would have gotten the full value out of it. Why should I suffer just because they didn't total it?

If any of you experts are able to help I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,

David

[bentrod]

I believe Florida may be one of the states that recognizes DIV (Dimunition in Value). If you Google "diminished value" you will find a plethora of sites that can help you pursue a DV claim against your insurer. Keep in mind that if you lease the car, you're out of luck as you do not actually own the car.

[csguy0]

Oh man,

You are a life saver... look at this website: http://www.articlealley.com/article_600014_18.html

It states: "Florida's Third District Court of Appeals in the case of McHale v. Farm Bureau Mutual Insurance Co. 409 So.2d 238 (1982) stated the proper measure of damages is the cost of repair, plus the reduction in the value of the vehicle."

Anyone had any experience with DV?!

Thanks!

[telcoman]

Oh man,

You are a life saver... look at this website: http://www.articlealley.com/article_600014_18.html

It states: "Florida's Third District Court of Appeals in the case of McHale v. Farm Bureau Mutual Insurance Co. 409 So.2d 238 (1982) stated the proper measure of damages is the cost of repair, plus the reduction in the value of the vehicle."

Anyone had any experience with DV?!

Thanks!

Assuming that you own the car, first check with an accountant on declaring a casuality loss using diminished value.

Price a new vehicle at the dealer. Do not mention trade in until you get the best price that you can. Then see what they will give you for your vehicle?
They can check the VIN number but I wouldn't volunteer any information about your vehicle. If they later discover the flood, they;ll just wholesale it off. In any case if it were me, I'd be looking to get rid of it.

Telcoman

[erikill]

I've had a lot of experience with DV. One way is to use the formula, which usually is 10% of the car's value. I think the formula is BS, but below is another way I've done it.

Here's the easiest way:

Goto Carmax, they will give you a fair market estimate of you vehicle (and have them do a carfax check etc).

Now check against KBB what the vehicle should be worth prior to the flood.

The difference is diminished value. Send via certified letter demanding payment of DV and covering all future repairs in writing. Keep sending it in until you have proof of receipt and they confirm they will cover any future damages (you may not get this one but you can try anyways).

Don't do arbitration, that costs $$$$. Ask for mediation which is generally free if you can get a neutral party. Worst case take them to small claims court. I believe FL is less than $15k. They will settle outside of court, but be prepared to be dropped post settlement :-)

[adren77]

Try to get a total loss.

You may not experience it yet, but with all the electronics in the car you may be having lots of problems down the road, especially with crap like VDC and ABS... and diagnosing those problems is expensive.

[csguy0]

I've had a lot of experience with DV. One way is to use the formula, which usually is 10% of the car's value. I think the formula is BS, but below is another way I've done it.

Here's the easiest way:

Goto Carmax, they will give you a fair market estimate of you vehicle (and have them do a carfax check etc).

Now check against KBB what the vehicle should be worth prior to the flood.

The difference is diminished value. Send via certified letter demanding payment of DV and covering all future repairs in writing. Keep sending it in until you have proof of receipt and they confirm they will cover any future damages (you may not get this one but you can try anyways).

Don't do arbitration, that costs $$$$. Ask for mediation which is generally free if you can get a neutral party. Worst case take them to small claims court. I believe FL is less than $15k. They will settle outside of court, but be prepared to be dropped post settlement :-)

I spoke to a lawyer today... It seems in this case I cannot go after my insurance company for DV. DV can only be applied to cases where my vehicle was struck by another vehicle... I would then be suing their insurance company to recover value lost. So, the way it was explained to me: the only person I could sue is mother nature because she is the one that cause the flood.

If you are able to help me out any further I'd really appreciate it.

If I were to get rid of my car today, I'd be about $5,000 upside-down on my loan. Should I go back to my loan corporation and ask for a lower rate/reduced principal? Should I threaten that I will default?

[telcoman]

I spoke to a lawyer today... It seems in this case I cannot go after my insurance company for DV. DV can only be applied to cases where my vehicle was struck by another vehicle... I would then be suing their insurance company to recover value lost. So, the way it was explained to me: the only person I could sue is mother nature because she is the one that cause the flood.

If you are able to help me out any further I'd really appreciate it.

If I were to get rid of my car today, I'd be about $5,000 upside-down on my loan. Should I go back to my loan corporation and ask for a lower rate/reduced principal? Should I threaten that I will default?

Price new vehicles. Perhaps a dealer that wants a sale in these economic times can help you out?

Telcoman

[kmech_7]

y i get gap insurance on all my vehicles.....so i dont go upsidown on my loans....real bummer though....junk the car.... I would part it out. or turn it into a race car....sorry, i have no other ideas for you