FGY33 Plenum Removal, *Finally, a walkthrough for the 4.1*

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Note: All photos are taken from the front, or from 90 degrees to the side. I can't stand how it looks when people have weird angles, so I made a sincere effort to be consistent.

Replacement of 2000 Infiniti Q45 AE Knock Sensors

Required tools:
8-14mm sockets, 3/8" and 1/4"
8-14mm open ends, and a large open end (not sure on size, 24mm maybe?) for EGR hard line (I used a STRONG STEEL crescent wrench and it came clean off.)
Hose removal tool (homemade here, heated and bent screwdriver)
Nice set of hose clamp pliers
Pick set
Small hammer to tap wrenches (if necessary)
Torque Wrench, 10-100 ft/lb
Above all, Patience and Attention. You are exposing the internals of your engine to the outside, so you need to pay careful attention and have dry hands.

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Here's the scanned receipts for part #'s and pricing. Something may be missing or on another order so don't take this for certain, but I'm sure 95% of the parts are there.
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1) FSM suggested method: Remove Intake manifold and plenum.
*This took me about 3 hours to get to, and replace only, the knock sensors. The FSM is vague about procedure, and it was my first time. I would say I could have the plenum off again in 1 - 1.5 hours.

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2) NICO Member "FarFetched" method: remove crankshaft fan, shroud, and alternator to access under plenum area.
This was pioneered by FarFetched, and I have to give him a round of applause for managing to do it. It is clever, but with my mammoth hands, I could only remove them, replace them, thread them, but didn't have the patience to get the small metal clip around the connector once connected. Burned about 3 hours including removal of fan shroud, fan, alternator, and that B***H of a large coolant hose. This method could be accomplished by someone with a good back, lots of patience, a long and very short 12mm open end GEAR GEAR GEAR (did I say GEAR) wrench, and tiny hands...

...I quickly gave up method #2 and went with the traditional plenum removal. I am VERY happy that I did, as I am very anal with my car, and furthermore was astounded (as tech and max always say) with the filth inside. Also, the asymmetry of the build-up was remarkable and sickening with 180k on it.
Here a few shots from my frontal attempt with removing alternator. Pretty tough to get the clips on the connectors from that angle, and no intake path cleaning benefits noted. I'm scratched up. Knock sensors are circled. The nasty part is the driver's bank, which is behind the hard coolant line that feeds the heater core. If you live in a country with lax child labor laws you may be in luck, but my hands were too big for this method.
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Not happening for me - check your local child labor laws. :)

Traditional Factory Method - Removal of Intake Manifold and Plenum
1) Remove Airbox, and tubing.
Several bolts, a few electrical connections. Be especially careful with these connections. Throughout this process you NEED to have a few different colored sharpies, baggies, and wire ties to greatly simplify reassembly.

2) Remove the IACV valve.
You could just probably just remove the rubber line and 2 connectors, I don't think you have to take it off the manifold. I wanted to clean it out with compressed air.

3) Remove Throttle Body and harness connections.
4 bolts, several connectors, and 2 coolant lines. Those lines aren't fun and are buried on the bottom, on opposite ends. Be careful with the clips: many of them make a "click" sound when they are "engaged" for removal. Be sure to wiggle them and work the sides if you have to with a small screwdriver twisting motion to separate them...don't just pull. Don't break them and take your time. Pics are of harness clip locations, one side of two difficult water lines, inside of filthy Throttle Body, and 3 shots into filthy intake manifold.

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4) Remove main wire harness from the engine.
This is optional but recommended for ease of the whole project. This includes 4 injectors, a bunch of other connectors, and those bothersome plastic ties that mount to the engine block. Try not to break them, use needle nose pliers on the reverse side to get them out. There are also 2 sensors on a bracket on the firewall end of the harness that will require attention.
Harness installed with circled connections for removal:

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Harness removed:

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5) Remove breather tubing from top of engine.
There's tons of vacuum lines. Use pictures or be gifted...your choice.

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6) Remove EGR connections from rear of engine.
If you don't have a large enough wrench to fit PROPERLY, go get one. DO NOT attempt to remove this without the proper fit. Damage this and you're in for a world of hurt. Lube it with rustbreaker first if you have to, but be careful. There is also a 14mm hard line connection in the rear. It's in nasty need of cleaning!

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7) Remove plate covering throttle cables.

8) Remove throttle cables from intake manifold.

9) Remove Intake Manifold.
There are five bolts holding the manifold onto the lower plenum, and many vaccum lines and coolant lines. Take note of their location (or use the pics in this walkthrough).
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Remember the small vacuum lines, one exiting passenger side, and one rear, and 2 large vacuum lines on rear. Also, there is a 12mm or 14mm bolt that connects a bracket from the intake manifold to the head. Remove one of those bolts. I also stuffed the lower runners and blew everything out with air...I'd suggest you do the same, although you'll be plugging them again when you remove the lower runners, since you're so careful, RIGHT?

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10) Disconnect fuel lines.
Be sure to depressurize the system by opening the gas cap, or you'll have some spillage. Be ready with plugs anyway. You can see my fine choice of plugs below. Be prepared, as these bastards are REALLY on there - you'll have to use a adequate tool to avoid damaging the lines. DO NOT grip with vice grips/pliers and twist as you pull.....you'll bend/break something.

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NOTE: The lower runner gaskets are a whopping $33 each, so if you don't want to spend the $60, you can attempt to clean the runners while on the car. I hate the thought of bits of rag and chemical getting in there, so for $60 and such a rare service I opted to remove everything.

11) Remove fuel rails, with injectors attached.
DO NOT disassemble fuel rails! Remove them with injectors mounted. Undo each electrical connector, and I chose to cut the fuel line joining the two as it was a PITA and I didn't have patience for it (new one from http://www.everythinginfiniti.com). There are (I think) 2 12mm bolts each fuel rail on, among a bunch of vacuum lines and other stuff.

12) Remove plenum bolts.
On either side of each runner, and a few others as well. At this point you'll probably find a few other vacuum lines etc. you hadn't detached yet, you'll get to those quickly. You'll need to remove a fuel bracket close to the firewall to gain access to a few bolts. I've circled some of them below. The last shot displays the O-rings for the fuel injectors.

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13) Remove plenum and PLUG HOLES IMMEDIATELY.
If you're anything like me, by this time your back hurts, you can't get comfortable, and you're prone to drop something. The FIRST THING you need to do when you remove any portion of the intake manifold is to ensure you won't accidentally introduce a foreign object into the engine. Plug immediately with rags. You really don't want to go through all this, to drop a nut or socket into your engine. Be smart, resist the urge to be brave, and plug them first. And no, I didn't drop anything in there! This is your opportunity to take a break, have a drink, and get 8 of something soft.

There is a steel bracket housing vacuum connections mounted to the underside of the lower runners. Lift the front of the plenum to access two 10mm bolts to remove the bracket, and allowing full removal of the plenum and disconnection of the MAP/BARO solenoid.

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One or both of these bolts WILL fall between your fingers INTO YOUR ENGINE if you ignore my above advice regarding rags. **NOTE** The first time I reassembled, I neglected to connect the MAP/BARO solenoid...make sure to connect all vacuum lines and sensors before bolting in lower runners and intake manifold!

14) [optional] Remove coolant "T" over knock sensors.
Allows better access to torque knock sensors. I chose to remove it so that I could ensure they were torqued to spec. If you are brave, poor, or stupid, torque them by hand and leave it on. I figured it was worth it to replace two small gaskets to ensure I wasn't doing this again next weekend.

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Removed:

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Incidentally, that sadly became reality and I had to redo this project the next weekend! The 4" long fat coolant hose leaked into the valley and I elected not to replace it the first time. It failed after reinstallation and I wasted 4 hours the next week redoing this, so if you are over 100k, replace every coolant hose in this project!!!


Here's 3 shots of all my parts removed, getting ready for cleaning and rehabbing.

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Assembly reverse of installation. Take great care to torque everything EXACTLY as spec'd in the FSM, which is available at http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM . Especially the injectors!!! They require a twice over, meaning you must torque them all to 8ish-12ish, and then again to 22ish (check FSM for proper torque settings!)

I am proud to say I didn't break, or even damage, one sensor or connector. A testament to Infiniti quality. I did cut one fuel hose that passed under the plenum...ok, two. Anything I can't replace from a "functioning" perspective within an hour, that costs less than $50, I replace when I'm doing other jobs. With few exceptions this rule has served me well.

If you are not mechanically inclined whotsoever, or have bad organization skills, this is not a job for you. For anyone competent with some experience, this guide should serve to bring you to your faithful end. Feel free to PM me any suggestions and I will modify the thread.
Email me with any questions at p a r a n o i d d o t j a c k [at] g m a i l . c o m
Credit for this walkthrough goes to the fantastic NICO community and the knowledge I have soaked up over the last 5 years here. I hope this is helpful to others.
Last edited by paranoidjack on Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:45 pm, edited 16 times in total.


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SanCarlosQ45
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Excellent work there, always great to add tutorials with quality pictures for current and future nico'ers. I don't own a second generation, but man that looks like twice as much work just to get to the intake itself, or is it just me looking at the pictures.

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WOW!!! Awesome documentation so far! I am sure your efforts will pay off for you with a perfect running Q.

maxnix
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Note how uneven the distribution of the EGR gases are as evidenced by the differentiation of the dposits on the lower runners.

With your throttle body almost bakc in the stone age with deposits, you must remove the EGR valve and clean the EGR tube in the plenum!

Show us some more excellent pictures.

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Holy moly! Much needed documentation and an excellent guide to help future searchers decide what to do with their cars.

Well done and good luck on re-assembly.

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Wow. I'll push mine off a cliff before I do all that!

Starting to thing my next car will be something from Detroit and built in the 60s.....or maybe an old VW.

Looks like one reaaaalllllly needs a garage to tackle that job.

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oldmako wrote:Wow. I'll push mine off a cliff before I do all that!

Starting to thing my next car will be something from Detroit and built in the 60s.....or maybe an old VW.

Looks like one reaaaalllllly needs a garage to tackle that job.
It's really not that bad. These things always look worse than they are.

Just ordered all the parts for the reassembly - $130 worth of gaskets, and 2 fuel lines that I cut to remove. 3 coolant gaskets (1 from failed frontal attempt at changing KS), TB gasket, 2 EGR gaskets, rubber upper intake manifold gasket, 2 $32 each aluminum gaskets for the plenum - head).

However, now I have a large problem. It seems recent regulations have tied the hands of local machine shops, and no one can give me a chem bath on my manifold, EGR valve, and plenum. I have no clue how I'm going to get these clean now, short of a thousand spray,soak, rinse, repeat. The best they could offer was powerwashing with chemicals, which takes 5 times as long, only works half as well, and will cost me nearly the cost of the IM and Plenum from Infiniti.

Not happy about this turn of events.

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Kerosene, Berryman ChemTool, large tub, lots of rags, grasping retriever, time.

No Safety Kleen? Bead blasting?

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maxnix wrote:Kerosene, Berryman ChemTool, large tub, lots of rags, grasping retriever, time.

No Safety Kleen? Bead blasting?
My friend has a beadblaster...I was worried about "dinging up" the inside...you think this would be safe max? What's a "grasping retriever?"

Other than that, the Mrs, is on her way home with berryman's and rags as you suggested. It just kills me to think I can't get it 100% spot on clean, 90% doesn't justify removing it in my book.
Modified by paranoidjack at 1:24 PM 4/28/2009

maxnix
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I used something like the Mayhew claw retriever tool sold at Sears with a Berryman cleaner saturated cloth on the end of the claw.
Last edited by maxnix on Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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oldmako wrote:
Looks like one reaaaalllllly needs a garage to tackle that job.
Ditto. A garage and free time. And perhaps an alternate mode of transportation.

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Alternate transportation, yes. Garage, not really, but a bench is nice. And the right tools. VH45DE is more involved.

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maxnix wrote:Alternate transportation, yes. Garage, not really, but a bench is nice. And the right tools. VH45DE is more involved.
The second time around, I could have this done in a day for sure. That doesn't include cleaning components though - that alone is going to take a few hours. I'll post up some pics of the cleaning process as well when I get around to it this week.

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Cleaning everything is what eats up the hours.

Who wants to put back together a dirty engine?

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maxnix wrote:Cleaning everything is what eats up the hours.

Who wants to put back together a dirty engine?
You're right. It sort of defeats the purpose, eh?

When I had my valve covers resealed, Keith Van Meter ran them through a washer. He said they looked brand new when they came out.

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Haitian_King wrote:
You're right. It sort of defeats the purpose, eh?
Besides new gaskets, it is the purpose for me.

Funny how everyone goes gaga over polished or painted on the outside plenums when what goes on inside is what is important.

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maxnix wrote:Besides new gaskets, it is the purpose for me.

Funny how everyone goes gaga over polished or painted on the outside plenums when what goes on inside is what is important.
Exhaust tips, 20" chrome rims, seat covers, steering wheel covers, cheap paint jobs, polished engine components...it's funny how much of the automotive industry is geared towards spending "sunk cost" proprietary items on a depreciating asset, rather than investing the same funds on necessary maintenance and mitigating financial loss. One would think with a guaranteed depreciating asset, people would strive to minimize the scale of loss.

Imagine if it was "cool" to maintain your vehicle? We'd be inundated with early 90's Honda's and Toyota's with 4-500,000 miles, instead of 2000 models with 130k on them.

"Yeah man, I changed my head gasket TWICE! I even opted to clean out my intake manifold during the process!" - one 16 year old to another....

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My tool of choice for cleaning is a case or two of brake parts cleaner, a bottle brush, and a drill bit for the EGR port in the plenum. I just turned it by hand, but it worked well to break up all of the carbon. The best deal I could find for BPC was at Wal-Mart - their cans of Supertech stuff worked well. I think I used about 20 cans of it on mine. That throttle body is one of the worst I have seen, you should see major improvments after you get all of this put back together.

I used a 5 gallon bucket as a catch for the cleaner and then let it sit out by the garage for a day or two. The cleaner will eventually evaporate, leaving a hazardous sludge in the bottom that I buried in the trash can.

Great pics and tutorial - this thread has "article" written all over it!

Heath

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nice pics/writeup. i haven't done the vh41 yet, but soon.i like easy-off oven cleaner and a bottle brush.stuff is really nasty, though--so don't leave it on more than 30 seconds or so. washes right off with water--use compressed air to dry everything out.

tell me, are you replacing any of the plenum hozes (besides the fuel hose?)try to leave your fuel hose end clamps accessible with plenum reinstalled---you'll be snugging them up in 2-4 weeks.


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3Q Jay wrote:nice pics/writeup. i haven't done the vh41 yet, but soon.i like easy-off oven cleaner and a bottle brush.stuff is really nasty, though--so don't leave it on more than 30 seconds or so. washes right off with water--use compressed air to dry everything out.

tell me, are you replacing any of the plenum hozes (besides the fuel hose?)try to leave your fuel hose end clamps accessible with plenum reinstalled---you'll be snugging them up in 2-4 weeks.
I'm actually not looking to replace any of them, as they are all in very good condition, inside and out.

Why do you say I'll be snugging them up? I really don't see an easy way to do that without removing plenum again - I see no reason i can't adequately snug from the git?

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OKAY.

MAN, does my back hurt. I have been inside and all around that car for a day and a half, whoa.

It's all done, put back together, but a few issues:

1)Insanely hard brake pedal, with no assist. Difficult to stop from a roll.

From what I've read, this seems to be a vacuum issue. Not surprising given I've just gutted all the vacuum lines. I replaced them wherever I could, and saw none with visible cracks. I have looked at the FSM, BR17, and those vacuum lines are functional. Not exactly sure where to look next...car is not driveable as-is.

2) Idle seems smooth, but a bit lower than before. This may be tied to the vacuum issue. However, after revved up to anything over 3k, when dropping, it hesitates briefly around 1,500 and then drop down to idle. Didn't do this before...

3) Steering wheel and seat don't move as they should when door is opened.Yes, I've played with the switch, yes I've opened and shut the door many a time in my trials.

and YES, my CEL is on. However, I can't get it to Autozone for a read because of the brake issue and don't have an OBD2 reader.

If I could just resolve the brakes, I could drive to autozone and have it read.Engine feels SMOOTH with plenum cleaned and TB cleaned...responsive and smooth. I just wish I could DRIVE IT.
Modified by paranoidjack at 6:42 PM 5/14/2009

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Purchase a inexpensive OBD2 code reader{ I got the Actron Pocket Scan for about $50, it will come in handy for as long as you or your family/friends own a obd2 vehicle- all major autoparts stores carry it}

Nice writeup! Only thing I would add, is to degrease/clean engine real good before starting this job to wash away grime and especially any sand/grit particles that are frequently found around plenum/valve cover areas to prevent them from falling into motor as you remove parts. A can or two of Gunk used at the local self serve coin operated carwash will get this accomplished quickly and inexpensively!

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1.) Did you reverse your check valve?

3.) You will have to reinitialize your controls. It's in the FSM.

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maxnix wrote:1.) Did you reverse your check valve?

3.) You will have to reinitialize your controls. It's in the FSM.
Thanks for heads up on FSM and process re: steering column and seat...going to look for it now.

I remember unknown saying this the other day regarding his check valve...if the check valve is the white circle that is parked in a bracket, no, it's correct. If it's the black circle with a medium line in and out, and a small vacuum line, no, it's also correct.

I detect no backwards valves anywhere.

EDIT:

Brian, damnit, you were right. I didn't realize the hose going from booster to plenum had a valve IN LINE....looking closer at the FSM, I realized it.

What a rookie mistake....remove and reinstall plenum OK, but put the hose backwards. Sheesh.

Going for a test ride now....


Modified by paranoidjack at 8:09 PM 5/14/2009

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OK, first impressions.

To sum it up, I've SCRUBBED the intake manifold and lower runners, replaced all gaskets, hoses where applicable, cleaned IACV, cleaned TB. Just changed spark plugs 20k ago.

Car feels smoooooooooooth...engine feels as if it's not in the car. I can hear it but no longer feel it. Before, idle was rough, and with all the filth the engine torqued a bit more than it does now at idle.

Power is great across the band, but as my KS failure was intermittent, the only (barely noticeable) improvement would be from the TB and intake manifold cleaning. For those with constant KS failures this difference is night and day. However, I don't feel much of a difference. If anything, the difference is in low end and shifts feel cleaner.

Also, very weird, after turning the car off to change check valve line, then turning back on again, wheel and seats move with open door?! I didn't do anything except turn it off and on (for the 100th time) and change a line! Go figure.

Well, now that's it all done, what do I do with my spare time now?

Have to do those tension rods again....new tires....

Sheesh, after this, everything else seems like cake!
Modified by paranoidjack at 8:23 PM 5/14/2009

maxnix
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Why I say the FGY33 may be the best everyday driver of all the Q45.

I still love the G50, but most of its advantage is lost in heavy traffic.

Either car can get you a ticket driving cross country.

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I'm glad that you got your car running. My car doesn't have any KS issues and it idle smoothly so I'm don't plan on doing that plenum clean. I'm not going to cause issues trying to fix/clean something. I'm not that good with a wrench so if you had issues, I know that I will!

As far as the seats, my car does that with the door open too. Well the key has to be in it but if my door is open with the key in, the seat will adjust to my saved position.

+7 Maxnix, the FGY33 and some of the best cars on the road...along with my mothers 95 GLE Maxima. I love driving that car! The mpg is outstanding. She has 225k on the motor and she is hard on cars; the car still drives smoothly. She has a new issue where she has to pat the gas pedal on initial start up to get it going, but other than that, she is getting her $$$ worth.

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Reference to follow up thread for future searches:

zer...m-yay

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An excellent write-up!!

Tangalora would be proud of your work ... wherever she is watching from.

Z

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After all is said and done, 3rd time's the charm.

First time I changed everything to switch KS's.

then large coolant hose leaked in middle and I had to do it a second time to stop the bleeding. KS code came back again, AFTER all this, because of a FAULTY HARNESS I neglected to test.

Just did it yesterday in 5 hours, and ALL IS WELL. Car feels like new again.

First time - 14 hours.Second time - 8 hoursthird time - 5.5 hoursfourth time (when I replace injectors and coilpacks) - will probably take 3-4 hours.

Total: 26.5 hours. Was it worth it? Yes.


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