End of the world scenario, best caliber pistol to have

[PoorManQ45]

40 short & weak...

[Urabus GodofTraction]

Yet the 155gr with a fast powder hits like a .45...

[PoorManQ45]

Yet the 155gr with a fast powder hits like a .45...

That's so awesome. A 20 year old cartridge can compete with a 106 year old design!!!

[PoorManQ45]

BTW, a 115gr 9mm +P+ competes with the 40 and 45 too... lol

[Mr1der]

...

making notes on ballistic charts again?

.40 fills an excellent niche.

.357 Sig...not so much, still a great round though.

[PoorManQ45]

...

making notes on ballistic charts again?

.40 fills an excellent niche.

.357 Sig...not so much, still a great round though.

Not sure on that one. The 45 does the same thing as the 40. It can be hot loaded for a little extra. I'm not sure what the point was.

IIRC it was that the FBI liked the caliber of the 10mm, but their agents were to limp wristed to handle the recoil. Then came the 40s&w to fill this need. That's where the 40 Short & Weak came from...

[Mr1der]

the size of the pistol it's chambered in.

.45 is a big f***in' round to doublestack.

HS pretty much did as good as you can do with packaging a .45ACP into a double stack.

recoil was harsh, but the biggest problem came from the size of the damn guns. There's powderpuff loads for the 10mm that hit about like a .40 without as much snap.

[PoorManQ45]

I am kind of upset that almost all 10mm rounds are half loads. Unless you buy DoubleTap or BuffaloBore you may as well have gotten a 45...

[Mr1der]

10mm really isn't something you buy to use factory loads with.

same with .45 LC

[themadscientist]

I have found .40 and .45 to be easily managed. I prefer the .45's push to the .40's snap.

[Mr1der]

mhmm.

.40's honestly a great caliber.

dips*** is dips***.

I like .45 myself, but I'm not really against owning a .40 S&W save for the fact I really don't wanna buy another caliber. I'm fine with using a spicy 9mm load in the really small guns. Depending on how much I have, I probably should look into getting a nice reloading kit with my tax return...

[PoorManQ45]

I agree. I'd rather have a single caliber that can do alot of things.

The 9mm is thought of as a "to small" of a round. I really don't understand this. It will kill a biped creature as well as any other round. It just doesn't blow huge holes in things that cause whatever you shot to bleed out...

A hot 9mm from a 6" barrel is capable of a claimed 500 ft/lb of energy. That is an awesome little caliber.

On the 40 note. Why note use the 10mm then. A magazine will be the same size as a 40.

I just hate that the market for it never took off. I am sure that the reason for this is that the FBI chose not to use it. The most popular rounds are government used rounds. It's a damn shame...

[Mr1der]

goddamnit, the magazine WON'T be the same size.

this is the whole reason the .40 exists! the 10mm is longer and requires a bigger frame.

if you try using .40 in a 10mm mag, you'll run into feeding issues.

[Repo Man]

PMQ's working knowledge of firearms is like my working knowledge of swine breeding.

I get a kick out of debating the difference in recoil between the three cartridges. Properly managed it doesn't make a damn bit of difference, not to mention the weapon it's fired from makes more difference than the caliber itself. My XD-M is the lightest kicking .40 I have ever shot. It's about like shooting a Beretta 92.

If you want to talk about recoil, let loose with a 310gr hard cast Garrett loading in a Mountain Gun. That will get your attention.

[themadscientist]

no doubt. I saw that first hand when sampling .40 for the first time. I fired the HK USP and thought, "this sucks." I was ready to skip it and stick with the .45, but then I shot a buddy's Glock22 and .40 became a usable cartridge in my estimation; night and day.

[Mr1der]

truth.

design is everything.

I'm not a fan of .40 in the smaller pistols though...

.45 gets a little tricky in smaller guns when it comes to making the function reliably too.

recoil on any of the big three doesn't bother me for the most part...it's not the same for everyone though...I have something more comparable to bear paws for hands.

[PoorManQ45]

goddamnit, the magazine WON'T be the same size.

this is the whole reason the .40 exists! the 10mm is longer and requires a bigger frame.

if you try using .40 in a 10mm mag, you'll run into feeding issues.

I know it's a different size.

The 10mm is 3mm longer. What I meant is that this small increase in size wont affect the size of the grip much. The diameter is the same. So you should be able to hold the same number of rounds in the magazine as a 40 in close to the same size frame.


Modified by PoorManQ45 at 8:56 PM 2/15/2010

[Mr1der]

depends on who's holding the two pistols...

most 10's are usually in a larger frame like the .45 ACP

you really want a useless round, go look up the .45 GAP

[PoorManQ45]

hehe, true.

I was looking at the 45acp again.

It's just amazing the relatively low pressures that the cartridge operates at.

It would be interesting to see an updated 45acp. That could be pretty damn wicked

[themadscientist]

Like .45GAP?
http://www.outdoors.net/site/f...False

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

depends on who's holding the two pistols...

most 10's are usually in a larger frame like the .45 ACP

you really want a useless round, go look up the .45 GAP

Why is it useless?
Stuff I've read and what my gf's dad (Reloading and ammunition junkie) says that the GAP is better.

[The Siath]

This isn't about rifles, if someone wants to start that thread go ahead, it's just as good a question.

Before you click on whatever caliber you love, I love .45 myself, think about it. Governments are failing, paper money is worthless, people are killing each other in the streets over a box of twinkies. You can't swing by the gun store and pick up more ammo, ever again. The s*** has hit the fan, it's road warrior time, only the alphas are going to survive. You have enough time to grab ONE pistol and the ammo to go with it, which caliber do you want?

Disregard the cliche big slow bullet -vs- fast small bullet dogma. Any of these calibers can get it done with a quality bullet and a capable marksman. Cost per round is not an issue, we are planning for armageddon here, price is no object.The scenario is specific and the crucial questions to ask yourself are:

What weight penalty does this ammo bring? Could I get by with something smaller to allow me to carry more in the pistol and on my person and still remain foot-mobile?

How likely is it that I might stumble across a box of this caliber in my foraging through the remnants of civilization? That .50 action express can take out zombies, sure, but when you run out, now what?

What caliber ammo will other people have they would trade to me for something or vice-versa. Do I want to rethink my first choice in favor of something more liquid?

What are the chances if my weapon takes a s***, I can find or trade for another weapon that eats the caliber I have chosen? Do I want to think about the replacements weapons I may be able to get when choosing the caliber?

If you would be willing to carry two, one to use, one for trade or in case you get your hands on a second gun, explain in you post what they would be and why.

Pistol ... 9mm - the ammo wouldn't be hard to find, though in an end of the world scenario your better to have already stockpiled.
Rifle ... .50 caliber sniper - extreme range and stopping power.
But, honestly in an end of the world scenario, you'd be better off with a nice Machette, and several good running 4 wheel drive vehicles at your disposal, something along the lines of the Toyota 4Runner, but not a Cherokee (they have some issues with starting that could be a b..... at the wrong moment. I'd not go with the Hummer, as it sucks more fuel than you'll be wanting to have to tote along when you need to run out for supplies.

[Mr1der]

Why is it useless?
Stuff I've read and what my gf's dad (Reloading and ammunition junkie) says that the GAP is better.

to a reloader, sure.

It was a solution to a problem that didn't exist.

what they were trying to do was make a shorter .45 to fit in a smaller framed pistol. (they did succeed as the .45 GAP Glocks are identical to the 9mm and .40 guns in size)

To be fair, it's not hard at all to improve on a cartridge that was designed 100 years ago, there's quite a bit out there that have been.

the GAP is useless in that it really didn't make for that much smaller of a grip and ammunition costs were pretty damn high not to mention the costs of making more pistols in this new unproven caliber. I'm not sure how many companies still make a pistol chambered in it...Glock might be the only one now. Ballistics, yes, it's a better load. That's the only advantage it has though.

the .45 GAP wasn't the first time someone's tried to improve on the .45 ACP

.45 Super was another attempt, the difference here is that the external dimensions of the cartridge are identical.

after looking into it a little more, a 5 or 6 agencies use the GAP.

I do believe my XD45 is .45 Super capable....any .45 ACP will chamber it...but don't unless your gun has a fully supported feed ramp. It might blow something apart on it.

.41 Magnum is a round you could almost call useless as well.

but the guns chambered in it just shoot too freakin' sweet.

[PoorManQ45]

.41 Magnum is a round you could almost call useless as well.

I don't know about that. 41 magnum, for a reloader, is absolutely perfect. The range goes from weak 357 loads all the way to weak 44 magnum loads!

That's quite a range

It's like the 10mm though. No one sells good ammo off the shelf for it.

[Mr1der]

eh...someone can find a use for about any round designed. .22 Short is probably the hardest

[themadscientist]

They go great in a slingshot. Same recoil, same stopping power.

[Mr1der]

lol..it's really not that far off base.

I think airguns have made that round obsolete.

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

I don't remember what thread it was in and I can't quote him but LeroyBrown said he Carried a .22 revolver on a chain around his neck. Guess what it was chambered with?
Think he'd be better off using the thing as a weak flail.

[Mr1der]

haha...nah, those are .22LR

but yeah, they're fairly useless.

better than nothing I guess...

I'd feel safer with my 21" ASP though.

.22lr is a great round when it's in something a little more useful. I'm not big on the mousegun stuff...but they serve a purpose. I've considered getting a .380 or .32 just to have a small easy to pack back up.

[PoorManQ45]

Yeah, the mini-revolvers aren't very useful unless you're using it to snub someone. You'd have to be right against your target to actually penetrate