I know we have a posts about electric fans. I have done the searches and we have a current post about it. I want as many people to give their opinions as possible. I have heard they are not as reliable, they do not cool as well, and they do not add any hp. Also the OEM fan works fine as far as cooling the motor goes anyways.

When I got my car dyno'd I saw a 300ZX TT with an electric fan and I obviously cleared up a lot of room and you could easily see the pulleys. I do have the full pulley set so it would be nice to see them. Is the look and added space good enough reason to get an electric fan?

I plan on doing my 120K kit soon as well as an upgraded radiator, so it would be the perfect time. Z1 offers a radiator set with an electric fan that may be perfect for my plans.

I would like to know if the electric fans are as bad as some people make them out to be or if they are a worth while upgrade. If they are, should I go with a single or double fan? And what are some good brands or links?

Is showing bling really worth overheating your engine? They are ok for NA's but i def do not reccomend it on a TT..

Nope it is not...If they are that bad for TT's I would not even consider it...

Also I should mention that I live in Minneosta if that makes a difference.

I would stick oem. Just not worth it.

From the research I've done in the past, a Taurus SHO fan or Lincoln Mk VIII are the best choices for cfm's, availability, and cost. I definately wouldn't recommend it on a stock radiator and you would need a custom shroud that covers the whole area of the radiator. The current draw is pretty significant too so you would need to use pretty large-gauged wires and have it hooked up to a relay. Only under those circumstances would I consider it, and probably only with a water temp gauge equiped with a warning indicator (set to stock level prior to installing e-fan). I've obviously been thinking a lot about adding an e-fan to my Howe radiator. Seems like a lot of work but may be worth it to some people; it all depends on what's important to you.

This is what I don't understand on the whole debate, how much cfm does the stock fan pull at an idle? or even 2000 rpm? everyone always falls back on numbers between 3000-4000 cfm, and honestly I have to call s*** on those numbers, at idle or 2000 rpm where most driving is done. Now, my new e-fan set up (dual 14" fans that kick on when the key is in the on position) pulls somewhere in the range of 2000 to 2500 cfm. I'm worried this maybe too much even in winter in California, and it even feels like its pulling more air. To me, it's not worth the extra drag on the drivetrain and then to have your water pump fail like mine did and then have the fan try and fly through the radiator and hood. Please, someone show me hard evidence as to why I'm and idiot to switching to super clean looking (and safe) e-fans?

And to add, it took me maybe two hours to install and wire up my e-fans, and that was because I was being lazy haha, its a super easy job.

let the motor cool itself, the VG knows what its doing

err edit, most of the time.

dharr67 wrote:This is what I don't understand on the whole debate, how much cfm does the stock fan pull at an idle? or even 2000 rpm? everyone always falls back on numbers between 3000-4000 cfm, and honestly I have to call bullsh*t on those numbers, at idle or 2000 rpm where most driving is done. Now, my new e-fan set up (dual 14" fans that kick on when the key is in the on position) pulls somewhere in the range of 2000 to 2500 cfm. I'm worried this maybe too much even in winter in California, and it even feels like its pulling more air. To me, it's not worth the extra drag on the drivetrain and then to have your water pump fail like mine did and then have the fan try and fly through the radiator and hood. Please, someone show me hard evidence as to why I'm and idiot to switching to super clean looking (and safe) e-fans?

didn't your water pump crap out because it wasn't oem?

stock performance numbers (3000-4000 cfm) are generally the most credible, as they do the most testing, etc. more than aftermarket companies.

and they're also more conservative in terms of numbers.

I've used the Spal 16" HO 3300cfm fan, thermister turned on at 185 and off at 170...
The car would not run with the AC on without heating up..

I did see the ford twin fan write up .. there could be advantages like a cleaned up area. I loved the way there
was so much more area to work on the front of the car but again the heat issue was too big a libility

i had dual altima fans on my pos 240sx. had dual 30amp fuses and relays, thermo switch, water temp gauges, everything properly set up. it greatly improve throttle response, butt dyno felt better, and mpg increased as well. noticed no diff in temperatures. only problem was power draw on the alternator at ngiht with head lights on, 75w FET driving lights, sub woofer, etc. lights would dim down noticeably, otherwise during the day, the car ran fine. however i havent done enoguh research to determine if the 300zx would get adequate cooling from a similar set up. i do know the j30 and maxima (and all fwd cars) get e-fans cus of the transverse engine layout. having a clutch fan on a longitudinal layout makes more sense as manufacturer. its more than likely cheaper, if it fails the fan will always spin. and the radiator is right in front of the engine already, so its pretty staight forward to slap a fan in front of the engine. not sure if their decision would have been different if cost wasnt an issue. only way to check is to install a coolant temp gauge and compare temps with clutch fan vs e fan... i dont have time to play on my car anymore. i barely have time to wash her.

An electric fan is a downgrade over a mechanical fan. The only advantage is freeing up 1%-2% more power. Otherwise, and electric fan will never be as reliable, nor will it pull as much as a mechanical fan.

Re037 wrote:i had dual altima fans on my pos 240sx. had dual 30amp fuses and relays, thermo switch, water temp gauges, everything properly set up. it greatly improve throttle response, butt dyno felt better, and mpg increased as well. noticed no diff in temperatures. only problem was power draw on the alternator at ngiht with head lights on, 75w FET driving lights, sub woofer, etc. lights would dim down noticeably, otherwise during the day, the car ran fine. however i havent done enoguh research to determine if the 300zx would get adequate cooling from a similar set up. i do know the j30 and maxima (and all fwd cars) get e-fans cus of the transverse engine layout. having a clutch fan on a longitudinal layout makes more sense as manufacturer. its more than likely cheaper, if it fails the fan will always spin. and the radiator is right in front of the engine already, so its pretty staight forward to slap a fan in front of the engine. not sure if their decision would have been different if cost wasnt an issue. only way to check is to install a coolant temp gauge and compare temps with clutch fan vs e fan... i dont have time to play on my car anymore. i barely have time to wash her.

A 240 is not a 300zx, have you seen the difference in the cramped engine bays? Stock fan works and has been proven better over efans thus far.

yes ive seen both cus ive owned both. ive yet to see flow bench numbers of the stock 300zx setup, na or tt. its not that i doubt the clutch fan pulls more but what i do wonder is if e-fans would be capable to supply enough cooling. that is the determing factor for most people who are willing to sacrifice some reliability, truck noise, cfm flow, for more throttle response, mpg, etc. parasitic draw is pretty much a trade between mechanical and electrical. im not rooting for one or the other at this point. just stating my experience of doing e-fans on another car that went through 3 years of 100+ degree summers. there are zs out there running e fans so some setups must be working for our cars too. just waiting on those owners to chime in.

If you really search there has been more problems using efans vs stock, their are tons of threads.

damn i wanted e-fans for my z,guess i have 2 go with stock for the non stop heat in south FL

Alright, I know I'm joining the ignorant dead horse beating here, but this is what ACTUALLY going on with the mechanical vs efan debate.

The stock mechanical fan is fine and works fine for most people east of the arizona border and north of vegas who will likely never see 125* ambient temps let alone go to the track on those days. The stock mechanical fan is rated at about 3-4k CFM at about 5k RPM (engine speed) and pulls about 2000CFM at idle. (this assumes the shroud is complete and the fan and fan clutch are in new condition) Now the faster the engine speed is the faster then fan is going to be turning up to a point at about 2500RPM (fan speed) the fan clutch will start to slip (to keep the plastic fan from blowing apart) and about 5k RPM (engine speed) the mechanical fan is only going about 3500 RPM and at 7k RPM (engine speed) the fan will only be spinning about 4200 RPM (fan speed)

Now in a time before the digital age mechanical fans used to be the ONLY cooling fan and a common problem with them was that the viscous coupler would get weak or just wouldn't allow the fan to spin enough RPM's to pull enough CFM's for the load/conditions and the car/truck would overheat (think 70-90's american car/truck) and the fix for this was installing a metal spacer to make the fan speed the same as the engines.

Now back in the late 80's (when the z32/vg30d was being developed and finalized) electric fans weren't common place in cars (mainly FWD cars) and haven't really proven themselves, as fan blade design wasn't really put through a extensive R&D program (until ford did in the late late 80's) Now basically when a fan is selected/designed for a car it's basically a matter of a mathematical formula and a bit of common sense. The general extremes they base these calculations off of, are generally 120* ambient temps with the A/C on and the engine at 50% load with the car at highway speed with a clean air path. This is how they usually calculate the CFM ratings for the engine at 3k RPM at the above conditions. Now they use the same conditions at a stand still condition except for the car is at idle and there is no speed. Now I'm sure a few nissan engineers had this debate on a lunch break or something and came to the conclusion that for what they had on hand and to keep the cost down while maintaining reliability the mechanical fan is the best choice. And it was, back in 1989 when the car was released. (where computers where as fast and capable as as a 5 year old ipod)

Alright, lets looks at the common sense behind keeping the coolant from getting it hot. The easiest was to cooling something that is hot is to keeping from getting hot in the first place. As an example ( a poor one) is that having the thermostat open at 180* means the temp is going to be at minimum 180* before the TS opens which would raise the overall temp curve through all driving conditions regardless of what fan is used. and generally would put the temps between 180-220* under normal driving (no real big deal until you start putting lots of load on the motor) Now lets say you drop in a 160* thermostat and the ambient temp and conditions are the same. You are going to be seeing anywhere from 160-200* under regular conditions and normal driving (no AC for either) Now what I have noticed is that alot of times people go to the dealer and buy whatever thermostat the tech orders (ALOT of times the 180* TS) nissan actually has different TS's for cal and fed cars that are not put in for emissions purposes. It's a track/engineer proven difference in temps a colder TS will make in a temp data log.

Now lets get onto the actual mechanical vs electrical debate.

For all example purposes both cars are exactly the same, no AC, no load, the only variables are the ones given.

Lets look at the mechanical fan since everyone seems so infatuated with it. According to nissan it flows about 3-4k CFM at 5k RPM and with the 180* TS will keep a cars temp about 180-210 under normal driving and about the same on the track (figuratively speaking) This is fine and dandy for the average person back east who only track days there cars every so often and doesn't go to try and set a new track record. but as we all know the fan flex's the faster is spins and will ultimately kill it. and possibly take the water pump and radiator with it.

A little middle ground here, once you are moving a certain speed the air is actually going faster then the fan can pull it and if the fan is not freewheeling will actually lessen airflow at high speeds. (an efan will just spin faster as it's hub is not connected to anything where as a mechanical fan is attached to the water pump pulley and cannot spin any faster then the speed of the engine)

Efan's, a majority of cheap (sub $600) efans below 2800CFM with a shroud sealed to the radiator and with a 180/160* TS will NOT be enough for anything other then driving to the grocery store. to properly replace a mechanic fan in the z32 with an electric, you need a minimum of 3200CFM, a properly sealed shroud, sealed airbox in front of the radiator, seal the radiator to the core support and a lower temp TS. If you cannot suck in a sheet of paper in a driveway with the fan on high from the opening of the nose then you need to get a better fan, or reseal the airbox/shroud. You should be able to put your hand in front of the nose and be able to feel the air moving.

If anyone has any REAL argument about this and not just what they have heard, or what they have read or seen and not just a bunch of BS CFM ratings, I am all ears.

(as a real kicker, how many non commercial cars in the past 11 years have used a mechanical fan?)

The only time I'd consider an electric fan is if I had an electric water pump. This would allow me to circulate fluid after the car has been shut off, cooling off after an aggressive run, or at the drag strip between runs. Otherwise, IMO, there are no advantages to an electric fan.

Where'd kevin go?

I really don't see the need for an electric fan. The Ford fan that is 3300 cfm pulls something like 30 amps. So, you strain the hell out of your alternator instead. The others just don't have enough CFM for my needs. I would love to adapt the "hydro-fan" setup that came on my son's 1JZ supra. That thing is amazing. At idle, you can feel a windstorm coming off the motor and it has a rated output of 6000 cfm. Toyota won awards for the design, but only put it on a few cars...

marty1mc wrote:I really don't see the need for an electric fan. The Ford fan that is 3300 cfm pulls something like 30 amps. So, you strain the hell out of your alternator instead. The others just don't have enough CFM for my needs. I would love to adapt the "hydro-fan" setup that came on my son's 1JZ supra. That thing is amazing. At idle, you can feel a windstorm coming off the motor and it has a rated output of 6000 cfm. Toyota won awards for the design, but only put it on a few cars...

When you have a stock fan come apart and take out the radiator, shroud, hoses and kill the bearings in the water pump you will. Plus you have the benefit of pulling your max amount of CFM at idle sitting in traffic which will reduce the temps a considerable amount, plus it would pull more air through the AC condenser thus improving AC as well. the biggest if only real flaw of the z32 is how tiny the stock alternator is for what is has to do. (efan or not) even with just the headlights and heater on the voltage drop is huge. Like I said in a previous post, if you sealed the shroud to the radiator, sealed the radiator to the core support and made/sealed an airbox You would be set.

I also admire the hydro fan, but f*** is that over complicating a street car.

I agree with CFM at idle, but I don't have an issue with cooling at idle either. The stock fan coming apart happens when they get older, crack and become weak. That is easily solved with a new fan blade for $70.

I have seen more failures than success with E-fans. I just don't see the risk/reward, especially when an upgraded radiator and new fan blade cure the problem. To each his own I guess...

Here is my two cents: I have had two 300's and put an electric fan in both. Never had heating issues with them. Both cars are TT's as well. I recently drove down to Florida from Indiana and did at least 12 hours of driving on one of those days. Never had an issue. I have my electric fan hooked up to a relay that is hooked to a power switch. When filling up at gas stations you can leave the fan running while the car is sitting giving you the added cooling off or if you pull in somewhere to rest. With my fan being on a switch I have to make sure I turn it on or off before I leave for a long time or start driving. I did the swap out to one save space, but I also feel it helps me out with cooling more than a clutch fan does.

However, its all in the eyes of the beholder and if you feel comfortable with the choices you make. Do you trust your decisions enough. In the end you have only yourself to blame.

I think it would be great if you could document your setup. What fan, shroud, wiring, sensors, relays, etc. That way, others that want to convert to electric would have a proven way!

Here is what I am running currently, although I haven't had the time to make an airbox.

It's a two core, double pass, all aluminum, welded radiator. I'm running the two speed taurus fan on a 70amp (to help with start up surge) on a temp controlled relay that's set to kick the fan on low at 160* and on high at 185*. and a 180* stant thermostat that opens at 182* a 23 pound radiator cap. I've got the pull the radiator this tuesday to install a pulley set so I'll try and get some better pics.

Not to be a old topic digger. Lol
What radiator is that your using? If I may ask.

Lovenpain wrote:Not to be a old topic digger. Lol
What radiator is that your using? If I may ask.

I have a stock napa radiator, its like double the size of the oem stock one. I have 94 or 95 maxima fans which slid straight on to the radiator and I brought a Z1 thermostat switch which plugs right in to the harness on the fan. Took me 45 mins to do it & that includes walking to the fridge to get a couple of beers for me and my buddy.

^

Here's how I plan on doing my e-fan conversion.

I'm going to use the Taurus E-fan for a number of reasons;
1. It comes with it's own shroud that can be modified (cut to fit any Z32 TT rad).
2. It's a 2 speed fan which means that you won't always be drawing a lot of current during normal driving operations.
3. It's CFM rating is equivilent to that of the highest rated Spal fan for the Z32 when on high speed yet draws less current than that of the Spal fan.
4. The cost of a new Taurus fan with shroud is less than 1/4 the cost of the Spal fan alone. If using a Spal fan. one would have to also factor in the cost of a good quality fan shroud like that of the Ash Spec type.
5. Taurus fans are readily available through Rock Auto for dirt cheap - http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframe ... ttype=2181

Taurus E-Fan;



Taurus E-Fan mounted;




Relay Switching/Triggering
I wanted something durable and robust enough to withstand the demans placed on it. I found a Relay Switching mechanism that hs proven itself in use with the Taurus e-fan and many other applications.
http://www.hollisterroad.com/proddetail ... d=MarkVIII
The owner of the company was extremely helpful in answering all of my questions and concerns about the relay and as to what thermosensor I could use with his relay device.
The Hollisterroad Relay has been over-engineered to handle the current demands of the Taurus e-fan and then some. I also got his large gauge wire connectors to integrate the relay to the e-fan wiring harness.





Thermosensor / Thermoswitch
I wanted something that would switch on sooner/earlier and also one that had a two stage switching mechanism so that it would be compliant with the 2 speed e-fan.
The best and least expensive one I found was one made for VW, Audi and Passats.
http://www.carpartsdiscount.com/auto/pa ... 3593=74371
This thermoswitch works as follows;
Low Speed
Turn ON @ 75C
Turn OFF @ 70C

High Speed
Turn ON @ 82C
Turn OFF @ 77C

This seems to be the right temp choices for me as I like to keep the car on the cooler side of the scale.
The nice thing about this thermoswitch is that it allows a step-up from low to high speed and vice versa which will be less of a strain on the electrical current drain of the car. Specialty Z has mentioned that the oem TT alternator is still strong enough to drive an e-fan on it's own but I wanted a bit more security in that department and opted to get a higher output Reman oem alternator to absorb this added current draw. Not to mention it will also be an added bonus to any further high wattage sound system endeavours in the future.
At $9.95 each, you can't go wrong.


Now you will have to get a bung made for this thermosensor and have it welded to your aluminum rad. I decided to get two bungs made at the same time and will have them welded at two distinct different places on the rad. If I feel that the sensor in one place is making the car run too cold or too hot I'll switch my wiring connection to the other thermosensor. It also gives me the luxury of having 2 sensors in place and the ability to switch one for the other if one may prove faulty later on.

These are my plans for a sound and reasonable e-fan set-up that won't break the bank and has the muscle to be just as effective (if not better) than the oem fan set-up. Again, there's the whole debate about the potential power gains by switching to an e-fan set-up which was not my main motivating factor. Having had my original oem fan clutch go faulty on me and being lucky enough to sort a second hand fan clutch, I don't envy the prospect if/when that fan clutch fails. The cost of a new oem replacement fan clutch would pay for more than 3/4 of my e-fan conversion.