easiest way to 500-600 HP

Post by **rcodea** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

well, i am looking to get 500-600 hp out of my r34 gtr, on the stock internals, and maby stock turbos. any of you know the easiest way? i am thinking 100 shot nitrous oxide and about 450 on the turbos.

also, does anyone know of where i can find a good gtr tuner in the states? i am thinking cali, but thats still a lot of land. any thoughts would be greatfull. thanks

and one more thing, as far as the engine goes, what are the main differences between the 32, 33, 34 rb2dett? i assume they had to of changed at least some in the many years.

thnaks again

Ryan

Post by **gsxtasee** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

450 not good on stock turbos, possible but not happily. longevity will be almost nonexistent.

what devices are you using to tune the skylinbe with? Power FC? F-con V-pro? you need to find somene local who can the devices you have installed on your car.... a Skyline operates on the same principles as any other FI car. Your local tuner could collaborate via teleconference with someone on the left coast for Skyline specific info. i would recommend Sean at RBMotoring

Post by **Porschephile** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

500-600 crank or wheel HP? If you want that much power at all reliably, there's no way you can do that with stock fuel, turbos, etc. Nitrous is unnecessary, considering that 500rwhp isn't too hard for the rb26. With ~650cc+ injectors, PFC, and some sort of different turbo well....there you go, 500rwhp. It's not quite that easy but, it's not that hard either.

Go with a PFC, larger injectors, and something like HKS gt2530's and you could make 500-550+rwhp with it properly tuned. The Nismo/N1 turbos are also good for 500-600hp. If it were me, though, I would add a metal head gasket for safety reasons. Damn, someone donate some 2530's or a T51r to my rb26 fund!

Post by **slidewinder** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

My question to you is why you want the 500-600 hp. If it is just so you can do one great dyno pull before you ruin the motor, I guess nitrous and stock turbos would be the way to go. However if you wanted to actually drive all that power, I would listen to the first two replies. It is all about researching what you want to accomplish. It sounds like you are way beyond the novice bolt-on power adders. If you do find a tuner, be careful that they are not learning how to tune with your motor. I've seen it done, and it is very painful. Best of luck with that awesome machine.

P.S. Have you tried talking to anyone at Signal Auto in CA?

Post by **gsxtasee** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

I know the guys at signal, head mechanic doesn't speak English (literally) lucky I know a little Japanese. They are pretty good but would go to Sean At RB Motoring first, he's the one that made the compliance package for DOT AND EPA for Motorex initially. He's the man in the U.S. for Skylines.... though Signal is good as is KIDS Auto (the owner of SIgnal USA's brother).. and the guys at Apex have a little experience and SPR now has a GTR to toy with as well.....

Post by **GTR Shop** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

A> You won't get it from std turbosB> You want to do it on std internals??C> Its always cheaper to buy a motor someone else has spent money on.D> If you've genuinely interested, we have a motor that makes 600hp atw at 1.35 bar all day long.. all on the motor..no N20

Post by **rcodea** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

cource i am genuinely interested. problem is that you are in NZ. its going to cost a fortune to have it shiped here. give me a quote and i will see what i can do!!!!!!! thanks for the help guys

Ryan

Post by **GTR Shop** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

You get my email?

Post by **rcodea** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

ye si did get your email, but if i read that number right, the engine your engine alone will cost more than the entire car, conversion, paint, body kit and dyno tuning time. maby i read the number wrong, but if i didnt, that number is honestly way out of my price range. i will email you back to ask you more soecifics though. i am that interested though.

Ryan

Post by **GTR Shop** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

Are you saying your R34 GTR, body kit, paint, conversion and tuning is UNDER $20k??

WHERE can I buy R34 GTRs for UNDER $20k.. we get ALOT of them here, and they are ~$40k for the car alone!

I'll buy 5-10 of them at that money...

Post by **rcodea** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

no, i am putting the rb26 into my '98 240sx. i guess i forgot to mention that part of the setup i guess. i am sorry.

Ryan

Post by **GTR Shop** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

rcodea wrote:well, i am looking to get 500-600 hp out of my r34 gtr,

Whats the above quote of your orginal msg.You clearly state 'MY R34', where infact, you've prob never seen a R34...

Post by **rcodea** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

first off, what does it matter if i have seen a r34 gtr or not. i am going to use the engine out of it. i dont see why you are trying to rip me for something that i am trying to do. there is no harm in asking a question. i apologize for my misleading you, i was trying to get more info and input than the typical boltons and ecu suff.

Ryan

Post by **GTR Shop** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

So you are going to use a R34 engine, and also make over 500hp with it.. what do you envision a motor and setup like that costing?

Post by **rcodea** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

yes i am using a r34 engine. i am actually going to buy a front clip and put it into the car for about $8K. then i am going to take the engine and upgrade it to where i am get 600HP for the track and about 500hp for the daily driving. but i want to have as little turbo lag as possible. this is why i sugested the nitrious oxide idea. i figure it will be about $6k in upgrades and i should be able to get to my goal. if i am wrong, please tell me so. i am still in the planing stages, so changes now are not a big deal. thanks for your concern and all.

Ryan

Post by **tyndago** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

The stock turbos will spit a turbine out the exhaust.

Dont use nitrous on the stock turbos.

Lag is perceived.... and highly over rated.

Ditch the stock turbos - get some 2530's .

Read this -

http://rbmotoring.com/mods.html

And this -

http://rbmotoring.com/advanmods.html

Post by **GTR Shop** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

Yip.. what Sean said, bar the N20 bit.. don't see the reasoning behind it..

Post by **Porschephile** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

Okay, lets see, here's my ~500rwhp rb26 setup list:

-N1 Water pump - $280-N1 Oil Pump - $320-Rb26 Tensioner Pulley - $54-Rb26 Gasket Set - $380-Nismo FPR - $100-Tomei Timing Belt - $150-Trust 1.2mm Headgasket - $300-HKS SSQV x2 - $400-600-Custom FMIC (~24x12x4) - $600-800-External Oil Cooler - $200-300 (not JDM namebrand, too much $)-Sard 700cc Injectors - $500-Apexi Power FC - $800-PFC Datalogit - $300-PFC Boost Control - $300-Flex a lite fans - $250-Aluminum Large Radiator - $350-OS Giken twin plate - $1200-1500-Large external fuel pump - $200-300-HKS GT-SS - $2600-HKS Elbows - $400

That about sums it up. I'm pretty sure I left some stuff off but I can't think right now. Right there that list is about $10k, and that is good for a reliable 500+ rwhp. The key word is RELIABLE. Now, you can always do something like use an adjustable FPR w/ bandaid electronics, low mount twins and run lots of boost to make 450-500hp, however your engine will most likely go before too long. Why not just do it the right way the 1st time and not have to worry about it? Oh yeah, and none of this inculdes drivetrain reinforcement. Do you have upgraded suspension, brakes, etc etc? All that stuff will add another few thousand to the price, depending on what you do. Don't even think about using stock brakes/suspension w/ a 500rwhp engine! That's a recipe for disaster.

I say start with the stock twins and stock engine. Do some bolt-on mods, maybe larger injectors and you will be good for ~400rwhp, for a relatively cheap price. Then you could see where you want to go from there. Not trying to sound negative or anything, but lots of people say "yeah, I want 600hp" without fully realizing exactly what that means. Normally this entails loads of supporting mods to properly support that much power, and many of these people have never even ridden in a car with 300rwhp. Just some thoughts.

Post by **GTR Shop** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

How does 600 rwhp sound at 20psi sound??You won't get it on that spec though!You've gone for a whole lot of gear that makes you look/sound good but end of the day, has no performance gain what so ever, nor reliability..

Your 2nd comment is 100% correct though..

Post by **Porschephile** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

GTR Shop wrote:You've gone for a whole lot of gear that makes you look/sound good but end of the day, has no performance gain what so ever, nor reliability..

Your 2nd comment is 100% correct though..

I'm no poser. I do not buy things like that to improve my "image" or anything else along those lines. I am simply overengineering what I want to build. I don't see where you are getting this. I could understand it if I did something stupid like having complete Defi link setup in gauges, but also already having some of the same gauges already in the dash to the point where I would have multiple tachometers, boost gauges, etc. For example, if I were doing what you said and acting like a JDM pImP tITe 1337 HaXOR and buying all the popular stuff because of thinking it would make me cool or something, then I would be buying all namebrand popular stuff. Am I doing that, hell no. It's not necessary for much of the stuff. As far as an external oil cooler, I'm buying a domestic one from jegs.com for $100-200 w/ cooling fan. A damn HKS oil cooler costs $500-1000+! Also, namebrand large FMIC's usually cost well over $1k. Screw that when I can get a Spearco core for $500-600 and make the end tanks myself. I am buying namebrand HKS turbo stuff for one reason. I am not buying it because they are expensive and it will make me cool. I'm buying HKS turbos because I like their specs, I like the performance they offer, I like the ease of use (low mount of stock manifolds), etc. As far as reliability, what about my list of mods has no performance/reliability gains? I disagree. Some of it is not completely necessary but, I'd rather have a much larger safety margin and be able to reliably make the power I am eventually aiming for without as much risk.

Post by **GTR Shop** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

DOn't get me wrong, the forula isn't back and my intention wasn't to make you look like an idiot..

BOV, Datalogit aren't need when you're looking for reliability.. you're going to be runnign 370+ rwkw on std pistons and rods.Rods maybe you will get away with, but I'd be looking at pistons before water and oil pump also. the oil pump will be a good help, but pitsons need to be changed.. not that you can't make that power on std pistons.. If you're in there doing pistons, may as well do bearings.

Twin entry fuel rail is needed also as the std one can't flow enough at that power to keep all injs at same pressure.. this has been proven time and time again with WB o2s.

Post by **tyndago** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

You dont need pistons at 500 whp....

Good idea - sure... but then sos , rods , new crank , new bearings.

Datalogit - save you a lot of time messing around. Very easy - I would say you need it with the Power FC.

The rest of the stuff - just good habits and practice. Water pump / oil pump/ Timing belt. Small amount of money in parts that can make a 3-5k engine into a worthless pile of parts quick....

If you get it together and find the oil pump is no good - pull the motor out to change the oil pump is a hassle.

Same deal with the water pump - behind the cam belt - so if you put a new one on - lots less likely something will go wrong later. And if you look at a standard pump to an N1 - the N1 makes sense.

Post by **tyndago** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

GTR Shop wrote:Yip.. what Sean said, bar the N20 bit.. don't see the reasoning behind it..

Oh yeah.... I mean you can use it - but boost is going to spike big on the nitrous.

The ceramic wheels are only going to last so long....

Couple of cracks (detonation) and they are done....

Post by **GTR Shop** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

Yes, on 32,33... I thought we were still on the '.. My R34..' route

Post by **GTR Shop** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

You don't NEED pistons no.. but you also don't need a flash cam belt, N1 water pump, Oil pump etc.

You can build big hp rat motors (we've been here before

) pistons are cheap.. if you've got the pump out and doing a head gasket, then its a no brainer.

The Datalogits are good.. Glen and his mate have done a great job with it..

Post by **tyndago** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

GTR Shop wrote:Yes, on 32,33... I thought we were still on the '.. My R34..' route

R34 has ceramic exhaust wheels too......

Post by **tyndago** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

GTR Shop wrote:You don't NEED pistons no.. but you also don't need a flash cam belt, N1 water pump, Oil pump etc.The Datalogits are good.. Glen and his mate have done a great job with it..

You dont need the Tomei timing belt... but hey its at worst double the price of a stock one.. and the GT_R is an interference motor...

Water pump - N1 vs Regular - Prices are similar - so why not get the better one ?

Oil pump is the life of the motor..........

Post by **GTR Shop** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

I don't car how flash you make eveything else, the weak link is still pistons at that level.. you can make your cooling and oiling system bullet proof, but its almost the same as using a billet crank, rods and pistons and then running a CA auto radiator.

Hell... dry sump it if you want, but end of the day the pins been pulled on the pistons life at 500 rwhp

N1 water pump looks like it will cavitate less at higher impeller rpm, but it will move less fluid (trust me, I did 6 year on Ships, and EVERYTHING has at least 1 pump!)

Post by **tyndago** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

GTR Shop wrote:I don't car how flash you make eveything else, the weak link is still pistons at that level..N1 water pump looks like it will cavitate less at higher impeller rpm, but it will move less fluid (trust me, I did 6 year on Ships, and EVERYTHING has at least 1 pump!)

I personally feel the pistons are fine at 500 rwhp... at least on our dynojets...

If you crack on a cylinder - its going to be #6 - then you are going to lose the ring land between the first and second ring - like this photo-

I did 4 years on ships myself....I know how pumps work..... N1 pump for me in a GT-R.

Post by **Porschephile** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:12 pm

Well, I should have said a little more. Basically, I am only going to start out at around 1 bar at most. I will drive around like this for awhile until I can collect the rest of the parts to put in a forged bottom end, possibly cams and lightened/strengthened valvetrain as well as fine tuning the car. I wasn't planning on running at a 20+ psi ~500hp+ level for quite awhile. I already have Tomei rod bolts and rod/crank bearings and basically need rods/pistons and a few other little things.

easiest way to 500-600 HP

easiest way to 500-600 HP

Re: easiest way to 500-600 HP

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