Hello all,

Just a question about engine oil and the CVT fluid. I've read that its recommended to change the engine oil at the break-in period, should the CVT fluid be changed as well? Also, in another oil thread, someone mentioned that the rogue comes with synthetic engine oil. Is this correct and should I just stick with synthetic when I do the break-in period oil change?

Thanks!

true/real break in is actually the first 50miles. thats the true time your piston rings will seat, etc. (running your engine hard is the best way to really seat the rings). if you wanted to change the fluid right after the first 500miles its a great idea. is it recommended? = no. most (if not all) engines are started off organic/conventional oil.

PS: if your going to change the engine oil & CVT fluid right off the bat, dont forget the transfer case & the rear differential.

Awesome...thanks for the quick replies. I don't have AWD so don't think the transfer case and rear differential applies here.

tranh2 wrote:Hello all,

Just a question about engine oil and the CVT fluid. I've read that its recommended to change the engine oil at the break-in period, should the CVT fluid be changed as well? Also, in another oil thread, someone mentioned that the rogue comes with synthetic engine oil. Is this correct and should I just stick with synthetic when I do the break-in period oil change?

Thanks!

My 2011 came with conventional oil from the factory, not synthetic. I'm not sure that the 2012 would be any different if the engine was not modified.

I have no knowledge on the Rogue in particular however it is common among engine builders to use special oils in their car during the breakin period, such as:
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/lubricants/
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/brk.aspx
I suspect you could search and find that there are manufacturers that have some sort of additive to their oil (whether it's just the large amounts of assembly lube or whatever)

Because of this if there any any special additives, even if it's just the assembly lube, you would want to make sure you do not change the oil prematurely.


Further I do not claim to be knowledgeable about the CVT construction and design but I highly doubt it is worthwhile to change the transmission fluid so soon.

all metal parts are made in a sand casting process. the sooner you change your fluids = the better. there is often pieces of sand and other junk thats not removed and ends up sloshing around for years.

engines should be first operated with conventional oils only.

So are you saying I should use conventional oil on the next oil change (ie. break-in oil change) regardless of type of oil in there now? Then switchover to synthetic after that? To make it makes sense to change at break-in to get rid of the crap that in there. The manual says breakin period is approx. 2000km and doesn't say anything about oil change or type of oil. Can I safely assume that there are no additives in the oil out of the factory?

tranh2 wrote:So are you saying I should use conventional oil on the next oil change (ie. break-in oil change) regardless of type of oil in there now? Then switchover to synthetic after that? To make it makes sense to change at break-in to get rid of the crap that in there. The manual says breakin period is approx. 2000km and doesn't say anything about oil change or type of oil. Can I safely assume that there are no additives in the oil out of the factory?

engine makers put conventional right from that start. thats the break in method. you bought it with conventional already in there
if you want to change your oil after a couple hundred miles, break in is already done, you can do anything you please then.

I'd use conventional oil up to 20k miles or so changed at the severe service interval of 3,750 miles, then switch to synthetic and a longer oil change interval if you desire. I'd change the CVT/differentials/transfer case/power steering fluids around 15 or 20k as well using OEM fluid (for the CVT) and synthetic fluids everywhere else.

The factory fill is probably some form of conventional oil, but it may have additional molybdenum disulphide and/or ZDDP (anti-wear components) due to the use of assembly lube.

Towncivilian wrote:I'd use conventional oil up to 20k miles.

I'd change the CVT/differentials/transfer case/power steering fluids around 15 or 20k as well using OEM fluid (for the CVT) and synthetic fluids everywhere else.

20k is a little over-kill but to each his own.

i agree 100% with the CVT, that you can ONLY use the nissan fluid. and the transfer-case & differential you can use a better synth gl4/gl5 for much cheaper with no negative effects.

tranh2 wrote:So are you saying I should use conventional oil on the next oil change (ie. break-in oil change) regardless of type of oil in there now? Then switchover to synthetic after that? To make it makes sense to change at break-in to get rid of the crap that in there. The manual says breakin period is approx. 2000km and doesn't say anything about oil change or type of oil. Can I safely assume that there are no additives in the oil out of the factory?

I would use the oil that is recommend by the manufacturer. I'm not a huge fan of synthetic oil for most people because it's overkill; your vehicle will most likely die from other causes well before the conventional oil you put inside causes an actual problem. No one can deny it is a better oil, but it also comes at a higher price. The question is really, does the better oil (synthetic) provide a benefit that is only measurable or actually noticeable? Because of this my opinion is that I recommend changing your fluids/filter as per the intervals from the manufacturer. Extreme conditions are exceptions, but most people do not live in an area with extreme conditions.

You can google to find out if Nissan puts any additives in the oil, however you have to take all the answers you receive with a grain of salt. For instance, here is a discussion from a site that focuses on discussing oil on this exact topic:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... er=2235226


While everyone has their own thoughts, their own "research" and their own feelings on the matter I think it is reasonable to ask yourself if you know better than the team of engineers that designed this engine as to its maintenance. Over the years I have realized that sometimes it is better to defer to experts and you have purchased this vehicle because (I assume) you are satisfied with the engineering that has gone into it and trust that they have produced a solid vehicle. So why doubt them out of the blue?

TrevorK wrote: 1). I would use the oil that is recommend by the manufacturer.

2). I'm not a huge fan of synthetic oil for most people because it's overkill; your vehicle will most likely die from other causes well before the conventional oil you put inside causes an actual problem.

3). No one can deny it is a better oil, but it also comes at a higher price. The question is really, does the better oil (synthetic) provide a benefit that is only measurable or actually noticeable?

4). Because of this my opinion is that I recommend changing your fluids/filter as per the intervals from the manufacturer. Extreme conditions are exceptions, but most people do not live in an area with extreme conditions.

5). You can google to find out if Nissan puts any additives in the oil

sorry, but i had to number the important things i needed to address in your post lol

1). the engine oil that nissan sells (which is branded with NISSAN) is simply re-bottled oil. it could be a contract with any major oil producer. every auto maker does that. so buy spending the extra money on nissan branded oil, your essentially going against your #3 idea: "does the better oil (synthetic) provide a benefit that is only measurable or actually noticeable? "

2). you think synthetic is overkill? how so? how is better lubrication overkill? or do you mean for the rogue engine specifically? i personally dont use synthetic on our rogue, but i certainly wouldnt say a think to someone who does. its better oil, it has more stable properties and has amazing lubrication properties.

3). will the oil provide a benefit that is noticeable? no. will it provide measurable results? no. but i must say oil isnt made for instant results/satisfaction. the one thing thinner oil will do instantly is leak from seals/gaskets that are shot. otherwise oil isnt designed for instant performance. its made to extend the life of your engine over-time. its made to extent the life of seals, gaskets, etc. so things that you cant see are actually conditioned better with the use of higher performance oils like synth/ester.

4). that you need to be careful of as well. manufacturers understand that often people who use the dealers for service will pay big money over time for services such as oil changes. if manufacturers start stating to change your oil at twice the 3,000miles interval, that means their dealers will be making HALF the money they used too. thats not in their best interest. (but many manufacturers like BMW/BENZ started recommended and offering 10,000-15,000 mile oil changes using synth oil.) i simply use my own method: name brand conventional oil at the cheapest price with regular filter = usually costs me $23 total/ changed every 5,000 miles.

5). all engine oils have different additives. some have friction modifiers, some have thermal barriers, detergents, antioxidants, metal deactivators, viscosity modifiers, extreme pressure, anti-foam agents, almost all have anti-rust additives- etc. Nissan Ester oil goes as far as have its proprietary blend being able to carry nano-particles of carbon or diamond dust that adheres to Nissan's plasma coated (DLC) engine parts to reduce friction between those coated parts

TrevorK wrote: Extreme conditions are exceptions, but most people do not live in an area with extreme conditions.

and its not always about where one lives. its got to do with:
does one tow?
is your engine naturally aspirated or not(t/s-charged)?
off road or on road?
how hard do you drive the car?
city use, or highway, or both?
how long does your car sit before being used?
type of engine? (VQ37VHR: the VVEL system almost requires the Ester oil)

ImStricken wrote:1). the engine oil that nissan sells (which is branded with NISSAN) is simply re-bottled oil. it could be a contract with any major oil producer. every auto maker does that. so buy spending the extra money on nissan branded oil, your essentially going against your #3 idea: "does the better oil (synthetic) provide a benefit that is only measurable or actually noticeable? "

Buying Nissan products is about buying products that they state are equivalent (or greater) than their specifications. Unless you are confident in selecting an oil that meets the manufacturers specifications then yes, you should purchase their oil. While this may not seem hard or difficult to some it is to others.

It's the same reason you should purchase a Nissan oil filter unless you're confident in purchasing one that is equivalent.

It's not spending "extra money"; it is selecting the appropriate part for the job. If you can't select an appropriate aftermarket part then the OEM part is always going to be acceptable.

2). you think synthetic is overkill? how so? how is better lubrication overkill? or do you mean for the rogue engine specifically? i personally dont use synthetic on our rogue, but i certainly wouldnt say a think to someone who does. its better oil, it has more stable properties and has amazing lubrication properties.
3). will the oil provide a benefit that is noticeable? no. will it provide measurable results? no. but i must say oil isnt made for instant results/satisfaction. the one thing thinner oil will do instantly is leak from seals/gaskets that are shot. otherwise oil isnt designed for instant performance. its made to extend the life of your engine over-time. its made to extent the life of seals, gaskets, etc. so things that you cant see are actually conditioned better with the use of higher performance oils like synth/ester.

I'll address these together.

Yes, in a Nissan Rogue driven in typical conditions synthetic oil is overkill. So is 91 octane gas.

No one is denying that synthetic is a better oil, the question exists as to whether the difference between synthetic and conventional oil will be noticed over the lifetime of the vehicle when following the proper oil change guidelines (in terms of when to change it). I do not think it is; the amount of engineering that goes into a vehicle and the lifespan that can be expected from components such as the engine itself has come a long way.

It's easy to sit here and speculate (and it is speculating) that "oh, the engine itself will be in better condition" but that's irrelevant to the overall life of most vehicles.

4). that you need to be careful of as well. manufacturers understand that often people who use the dealers for service will pay big money over time for services such as oil changes. if manufacturers start stating to change your oil at twice the 3,000miles interval, that means their dealers will be making HALF the money they used too. thats not in their best interest. (but many manufacturers like BMW/BENZ started recommended and offering 10,000-15,000 mile oil changes using synth oil.) i simply use my own method: name brand conventional oil at the cheapest price with regular filter = usually costs me $23 total/ changed every 5,000 miles.

You contradict yourself when you mention that BMW offers a 1 year oil change option which undoubtedly lowers their service revenue. Manufacturers provide a maintenance schedule based on the people who engineered the vehicle, if you think that you're in a better position to determine that maintenance schedule than them by all means do it.

They give you their opinion on the best way to maintain your vehicle. You obviously trust their opinion given you bought their engineering marvel for a reason.

and its not always about where one lives. its got to do with:
does one tow?
is your engine naturally aspirated or not(t/s-charged)?
off road or on road?
how hard do you drive the car?
city use, or highway, or both?
how long does your car sit before being used?
type of engine? (VQ37VHR: the VVEL system almost requires the Ester oil)

We're dealing with a Nissan Rogue here and half the points you mention are not applicable. Nissan makes an extreme maintenance schedule to deal with the "extreme" scenarios and if you fall into it (they do provide examples) then you should consider following it.

Now if you're driving a turbocharged VQ37VHR Rogue that you use to tow your boat down dirt roads during a rally-like scenario I will concede that your application doesn't follow within their guidelines. However, the vast, vast majority of Rogue owners do and the ones that don't .... well .... they probably bought the wrong vehicle to begin with

TrevorK wrote:Buying Nissan products is about buying products that they state are equivalent (or greater) than their specifications. Unless you are confident in selecting an oil that meets the manufacturers specifications then yes, you should purchase their oil. While this may not seem hard or difficult to some it is to others. It's the same reason you should purchase a Nissan oil filter unless you're confident in purchasing one that is equivalent. It's not spending "extra money"; it is selecting the appropriate part for the job. If you can't select an appropriate aftermarket part then the OEM part is always going to be acceptable.

again, you do realize that nissan DOES NOT make its own filters, oils, etc? they outsource it from companies like fram, purolator, wix, etc?
so buying a wix filter thats labeled nissan, versus a wix filter labeled wix = waste of money. its simple and easy to walk up to any parts counter and ask for what fits your car. JUST BECAUSE IT SAYS NISSAN DOESNT MEAN ITS THE "RIGHT" or "APPROPRIATE" tool for any job. everyone who knows nissan knows Nissan Oil FIlters suck major butt.
CASE IN POINT:


Side-by-side comparo of both filters (Purolator on the left, OEM on the right). The Purolator filter element is approx 2 1/2" tall with 50 pleats vs the OEM filter element which is approx 1 7/8" tall with only 41 pleats. More pleat area = better filtering ability.


(left)Purolator = metal framing. - (right)Nissan Filter = Cardboard Framing.


(left)Purolator = metal framing. - (right)Nissan Filter = Cardboard Framing.


(left)Purolator = anti drain back plunger. - (right)Nissan Filter = anti drain back plunger

No one is denying that synthetic is a better oil, It's easy to sit here and speculate (and it is speculating) that "oh, the engine itself will be in better condition" but that's irrelevant to the overall life of most vehicles.

there is no speculation here. synth is a better oil. better oil cools the engine better. better oil protects the vital seals better. better oil creates less sludge. better oil takes away a lot of the friction produced by an engine. THERE IS NO SPECULATION lol

You contradict yourself when you mention that BMW offers a 1 year oil change option which undoubtedly lowers their service revenue. Manufacturers provide a maintenance schedule based on the people who engineered the vehicle, if you think that you're in a better position to determine that maintenance schedule than them by all means do it. They give you their opinion on the best way to maintain your vehicle. You obviously trust their opinion given you bought their engineering marvel for a reason.

i didnt contradict myself. bmw offers 15,000 mile oil change because its "free" and apart of their service that comes with certain cars. you paid for it already in the price of the car, dont worry. plus bmw had contracts with Mobil1 to supplement any losses. PLus when at a bmw/benz dealer the customer who does have to pay for his oil change every 10-15k he pays $80-$150. dont worry mate. they are making their "every 3000mile oil change" worth there are no free gifts in this world, you should know that. but i will call nissan on its bluff of making you change your oil every 3,000miles. its a proven fact that todays engines do NOT have to change their oil every 3,000-3,500. we have different cross hatching on our cylinder walls, and tighter clearances that allow for less material wear & less carbon buildup within our oil. BUT TELL YOU TO COME EVERY 3,000MILES MAKES THEM SERIOUS MONEY.

We're dealing with a Nissan Rogue here and half the points you mention are not applicable. Nissan makes an extreme maintenance schedule to deal with the "extreme" scenarios and if you fall into it (they do provide examples) then you should consider following it.

i tow a trailer with a racebike & gear( 1500lbs+), i do drive off-road at time. long driveway thats all sand. and at times i drive it hard. i drive in nyc traffic constantly, etc. so yes, just because its a Rogue- doesnt mean it wont see abuse.

Regarding synthetic, I just got the word from my Nissan dealership today that they are approved to recommend 6 month/6000 km change intervals for their Mobil 1 Full Synthetic motor oil, with tax it will be almost exactly $100, x2 changes per year = $200 total which is what I paid for the regular, more frequence oil change.

I'm pleased to say the least, I now have to only visit the shop twice per year, my costs remain the same, and I get a far superior oil. I don't think there is any dispute here, synthetic is far superior to regular oil and will provide measurable benefits. Even if you aren't concerned about getting a million miles out of your car, synthetic will provide immediate benefits today of a cleaner, better lubricated engine. "Severe Service" doesn't just include towing and offroading, it includes routine things like stop-and-go traffic in hot weather - this causes the oil to become very hot and destabilize, producing by-products such as sludge and varnish. Cold weather starts are another scenario that is hard on an engine and which synthetic will provide benefits.

This is not to say that "you should not use conventional motor oil", not at all, conventional oils have come a long way and are far superior to what was available a couple decades ago. But if you look at the cost-benefit analysis of switching to synthetic, it is a pretty convincing argument to make the switch. For me the yearly costs will stay the same, I'll save time with reduced visits to the dealer due to longer change intervals, my engine will be kept in optimum condition which may lead to better efficiency today, the conditioners and additives in the oil may cause my seals and gaskets to last longer and prevent future leaks - if there is even a chance that synthetic will provide me with these benefits why not make the swtich? I also like it as another selling point when I do decide to sell the car, it implies that superior care has been taken with vehicle maintenance.

Those are my thoughts on the issue, I know there are counter-points and a lot depends on individual driving conditions, of which I think most people are quite a bit harder/extreme on their vehicles than they think. With much of the US in 110 degree persistent heat wave this summer, I'd say most Americans were driving in "extreme" conditions!

kerr, thats cool that nissan offers that. i didnt even know because i never go to the service dept lol i was there once to get my new tires that were promised when i bought the used rogue.

as highly as i think of synth, i dont use it. i thought about using synth, but honestly since i change my oil myself, it just doesnt add up for me. i buy a 5.1qt bottle and a free filter form advance auto for about $20-$25(depending on sale) and do it myself every 5000miles.
like you said, conventional oil came a LONG way. the 3,000 mile idea is LONG GONE. people today can easily stretch conventional oils out to 5,000miles safely.

what we must not forget is that filters dont last forever either. you cant use the Nissan cardboard garbage filters for long durations. 5,000 at most for regular service. if folks want to extend their service intervals they HAVE to use a better quality filter that doesn't use cardboard & glue to hold things together.

(This is a great topic. Ker, TrevorK, and I have some great info & points going, what do you guys think about starting an oil thread?)

Good points, and good idea keeping on topic. There is an existing thread on this that covers a lot of the debate and we could add to it:

has-anyone-changed-to-synthetic-oil-yet-t304676.html

...and that is disappointing that Nissan is using the cheap filters with cardboard ends, I won't be pushing it much past 3500 miles/6 months.

kerrton wrote:Good points, and good idea keeping on topic. There is an existing thread on this that covers a lot of the debate and we could add to it:

has-anyone-changed-to-synthetic-oil-yet-t304676.html

...and that is disappointing that Nissan is using the cheap filters with cardboard ends, I won't be pushing it much past 3500 miles/6 months.

you can bring in your own filter - im 99% sure they will use it problem free. i know for a fact mobil1 makes an extended service filter

ImStricken wrote:again, you do realize that nissan DOES NOT make its own filters, oils, etc? they outsource it from companies like fram, purolator, wix, etc?

JUST BECAUSE IT SAYS NISSAN DOESNT MEAN ITS THE "RIGHT" or "APPROPRIATE" tool for any job.

Any part you purchase from an OEM is the "right" and "appropriate" part for the use it is intended. Is it the best part available? No. But that doesn't mean it is not the "right" or "appropriate" part according to the engineers who designed the vehicle.

You don't quite seem to be understanding what I'm trying to say. It is completely irrelevant who Nissan buys their filters from. The filters that they market as their own meet (or exceed) their specifications. If you do not feel comfortable in purchasing an aftermarket filter (or whatever part you are dealing with) that is equivalent to OEM specifications you can always be assured that the OEM filter is good.

It's fine if you feel comfortable in picking out a part and deciding whether it is equivalent (or better) than the OEM part. But not everyone is and it's foolish to suggest that someone who has no knowledge in the area just go buy parts at the autoparts store and assume they are quality pieces.

There are plenty of inferior quality parts, and now even knockoff parts, that it wouldn't be safe to just randomly pick something out or order off ebay. I've seen enough threads of fake struts/coils coming over that do not meet any sort of safety/quality standard and could possibly be dangerous.

there is no speculation here. synth is a better oil. better oil cools the engine better. better oil protects the vital seals better. better oil creates less sludge. better oil takes away a lot of the friction produced by an engine. THERE IS NO SPECULATION lol

Again, there is no denying that synthetic is a better oil. If you reread my post you'll find out that it is pure speculation on your part of the condition of an engine after 120,000 miles and how that condition relates to the type of oil put inside. It is also speculation on your part that synthetic oil will actually make a difference in the lifespan of an engine in relation to the vehicle.


This is my point. We can put synthetic in a vehicle and the engine may last to 400,000 miles. We can put conventional in a vehicle and the engine may last to 300,000 miles. (examples and not numbers that have any research behind them) But if the vehicle itself doesn't last to 300,000 miles any long-term benefit of synthetic oil is irrelevant.

kerrton wrote:Regarding synthetic, I just got the word from my Nissan dealership today that they are approved to recommend 6 month/6000 km change intervals for their Mobil 1 Full Synthetic motor oil, with tax it will be almost exactly $100, x2 changes per year = $200 total which is what I paid for the regular, more frequence oil change.

I just thought I'd double check - did you mean the 6000KM above (as that's the regular interval)? Or should that be 12,000KM?

It's nice to see that they are supporting different intervals because as you mention, if you are only going twice a year you save yourself actual time which I'm sure all of us wish we had more of.

TrevorK wrote:Again, there is no denying that synthetic is a better oil. If you reread my post you'll find out that it is pure speculation on your part of the condition of an engine after 120,000 miles and how that condition relates to the type of oil put inside. It is also speculation on your part that synthetic oil will actually make a difference in the lifespan of an engine in relation to the vehicle.

"there is no denying that synthetic is a better oil" - how then, if its not going to make a difference in the lifespan of the engine? you make no sense. WHY DO YOU FEEL THAT SYNTH IS A BETTER OIL - BUT YET IT WONT MAKE THE ENGINE LAST LONGER.

if you call me bluff, that synth is going to actually make a difference in the lifespan of an engine.- prove me wrong. because from what i know, synth doesnt cake up inside as easily as conventional - and that sludge IS what kills engines. by having a better barrier between piston rings & cylinder walls IS whats going to prolong its service life.

Hello everyone! New Rogue owner here. I just did my first oil change (I like to do my own maintenance), but the puralotor I purchased (as recommended by purolator) was the exact same size as the nissan filter...

L14612


ImSticken, the one you show in your comparison is larger? What is the purolator part number in that pic?

thanks!

jcircus wrote:Hello everyone! New Rogue owner here. I just did my first oil change (I like to do my own maintenance), but the puralotor I purchased (as recommended by purolator) was the exact same size as the nissan filter...

L14612


ImSticken, the one you show in your comparison is larger? What is the purolator part number in that pic?

thanks!

i also use purolator. the pics i have up are for my g37 engine
The Purolator oil filter I used is L14610. It's the longer version of the L14612 which is listed on the Purolator website as the oil filter for G37s.

ImStricken wrote:"there is no denying that synthetic is a better oil" - how then, if its not going to make a difference in the lifespan of the engine? you make no sense. WHY DO YOU FEEL THAT SYNTH IS A BETTER OIL - BUT YET IT WONT MAKE THE ENGINE LAST LONGER.

if you call me bluff, that synth is going to actually make a difference in the lifespan of an engine.- prove me wrong. because from what i know, synth doesnt cake up inside as easily as conventional - and that sludge IS what kills engines. by having a better barrier between piston rings & cylinder walls IS whats going to prolong its service life.

You keep missing the point; while synthetic oil is a better oil it will not add to the lifespan of the vehicle because for 99% of people the car is long gone to the junkyard before the type of oil you use comes into play. You focus on the engine's lifespan when in reality the engine is a piece to a much larger puzzle and not the sole determining factor behind life of the vehicle and that's what is important.

Who cares about the benefits of synthetic oil when those benefits do not increase the lifespan of the vehicle or create any other actual noticeable difference during the life of the vehicle?


Again, it's the same as using 91 Octane in the Rogue. While not having done any research I assume it will burn cleaner than 87 octane. But if it doesn't make an actual difference (mileage, lifespan of the vehicle, etc) then why would you put it in? Just because it is better isn't a reasonable reason because there reaches a point of diminishing return (or no return).
(I know little about gas other than the claims that the higher octane gas burns cleaner which is what I base this on. So take it as an example to relate my point.)

I get your point Trevor, everyone has their unique circumstances to consider and that's why there are different maintenance schedules and details specific to the owner. If you only keep your cars 3-5 years for example, why would you even consider using synthetic oil or performing maintenance items early such as tranny and diff fluid replacements after 1000 miles? It would be a waste for you personally and you wouldn't do it. The maintenance schedules specify "minumum" requirements, the individual is free to decide if they want to go above and beyond and if the cost provides enough of a benefit. I agree.

In the case of using synthetic oil in my car, its a no-brainer. The yearly costs are actually lower for me, and the potential benefits are much higher with a superior lubricant. Like you said Trevor, you have to look not only at the benefits, but how significant is the benefit and it seems to me that synth is significantly better.

The main point I made in favor of using synthetic oil had nothing to do with long-term engine life. I feel synthetic oil offers an immediate benefit to me today, right now, and every day that I run my car because in theory that engine will be running cleaner, more efficient with better lubrication in particular on cold winter starts and stop and go hot weather driving which I do a lot of. It will prevent premature wear which could lead to oil consumption - the last thing I want is an engine that consumes oil, its bad for air quality, bad for resale (no ones going to buy my car if it blows smoke on startup), and its a pain to have to check and top-up all the time. Synthetic should also protect and condition my seals to prevent premature leaks - head gasket, oil pan gasket leaks are expensive to fix, and can actually do a lot of harm to the engine if not caught early (coolant in the oil is very bad). These are all short to medium-term concerns I have regarding my car, you can easily encounter these issues around the 5+ year mark which I'm getting close to, and at this point I too am not concerned about 10-15 years down the road, I'm sure I won't be driving this car that far into the future. I'm concerned about the car today which is why I feel synth is a good choice, but like we've already said, conventional oil is not a bad choice either.

Everyone has their own opinion regarding maintenance, and for the most part everyone is correct. The only bad maintenance is the one *not* done...
Personally, I use Pennzoil Platinum in my vehicles for lots of reasons, other than extended engine life.
1. It's only about $5 more at walmart than conventional (on sale)
2. Comes with a free 300K mile warranty on your engine (requires registering your vehicle at pennzoil website)
3. seems to run smoother, last longer between oil changes. (thats just my perception... no data to back up)
4. OEM specs/parts are fine, but why skimp to save only a couple dollars when you can get much better quality stuff than nissan offers?
5. good maintenance records, with the word "Synthetic oil" used anywhere increases resale value and attracts people looking to purchase used..

TrevorK wrote: while synthetic oil is a better oil it will not add to the lifespan of the vehicle because for 99% of people the car is long gone to the junkyard before the type of oil you use comes into play. Who cares about the benefits of synthetic oil when those benefits do not increase the lifespan of the vehicle or create any other actual noticeable difference during the life of the vehicle?

dude you are DEAD wrong. most people send their cars to the junk yard because the engine or tranny is shot. YOU KNOW HOW I KNOW THAT? I MANAGE A JUNK YARD lol. i dont care what the other issues like RUST, accident, etc come into play. we are not talking about those reasons. we are talking about ENGINE & TRANNY OIL AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON ENGINES DIE IS BECAUSE OF SLUDGE OR WORN PISTON RINGS. (and thats where your oil comes into play)
the higher quality oils create better barriers for the moving parts, thus reducing wear, thus increasing engine life. they also dont sludge up as fast.

Again, it's the same as using 91 Octane in the Rogue. While not having done any research I assume it will burn cleaner than 87 octane.

wrong again mate. 91 isnt "cleaner" than 87. and 112(race fuel) isnt cleaner than 91. octane prevents early ignition thats all. its basically a retardant.
engines all run different compression ratio's. if you compress pure gasoline enough it explodes easily. so when the basic 4 cycle engine(which we have) hit its 2nd cycle (1intake, 2compression, 3power, 4exhuast) which is compression, and the fuel explodes to early due to the compression = you have pre-ignition that will not allow the engine to run right, and will cause serious knock, and will ruin your engine. so manufacturers realized that 87 fuel is pretty much the lowest our cars can run on without developing pinging & knocking- because of the explosiveness of gasoline. but our knock sensors adjust to the timing of the ignition of the fuel. so we are fine to run 87 in a car that says super, and to run super in a car that says 87. nothing to do with cleanliness

Synthetic vs. conventional engine oil depends on your return on investment. If a particular synthetic oil costs twice as much as a conventional oil, can you run the synthetic oil twice as long to "break even"?

Synthetic oil may be "better", but will it be any better than conventional oil for your operating conditions? If you do not do extended oil change intervals where a conventional oil may have its additives depleted, why do you need synthetic oil when conventional oil will be fine for shorter intervals and "normal" operating conditions?

Okay, how about severe service? Even if you make short trips all the time and never allow the engine oil to reach operating temperature to boil off excess moisture, synthetic oil ain't gonna help there, and it won't handle the severe fuel dilution that occurs with constant short trips any better than a conventional oil of the same grade.

Dusty operating conditions? Just stick with the severe service interval and use conventional. Synthetic may have more detergents to hold the dirt in suspension, but again - why bother for a shorter interval?

As for "oversize" filters, if you're under warranty do not use them. Stick with the filter part number a particular manufacturer specifies for your vehicle, or there may be warranty issues should you end up requiring warranty work on the engine.

Without meaning to be rude I think it's time to impart a life lesson on to you.

"Listen to understand, not to respond".

It's clear that you do not care to understand half of what I am saying and instead pick out keywords and phrases to formulate your response while you read through the rest of the post. While you can do as you please I urge you to think of the phrase above in your everyday life and see what sort of positive changes it makes.

ImStricken wrote:dude you are DEAD wrong. most people send their cars to the junk yard because the engine or tranny is shot. YOU KNOW HOW I KNOW THAT? I MANAGE A JUNK YARD lol. i dont care what the other issues like RUST, accident, etc come into play. we are not talking about those reasons. we are talking about ENGINE & TRANNY OIL AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON ENGINES DIE IS BECAUSE OF SLUDGE OR WORN PISTON RINGS. (and thats where your oil comes into play)
the higher quality oils create better barriers for the moving parts, thus reducing wear, thus increasing engine life. they also dont sludge up as fast.

So let me get this straight. Your evidence that a properly maintained engine using conventional oil is having issues directly related to conventional vs synthetic is based on cars that are sent to the junkyard? Really?

Just think about what you're saying. You're claiming that people who drive their cars into the ground (or, are so old they are not worth fixing) are properly maintaining their vehicles and that you (and your staff) are qualified to actually diagnose the precise cause of engine failure? If so, I applaud your junkyard for not taking in cars without the proper maintenance records and doing thorough engineering/oil analysis to determine if and why the engine failed. However I suspect this is not case.

Again, none of your post relates to the cause of catastrophic vehicle failure (as in it is scrapped for parts) as a result of properly maintaining it with conventional oil vs synthetic.

wrong again mate. 91 isnt "cleaner" than 87. and 112(race fuel) isnt cleaner than 91. octane prevents early ignition thats all. its basically a retardant.
engines all run different compression ratio's. if you compress pure gasoline enough it explodes easily. so when the basic 4 cycle engine(which we have) hit its 2nd cycle (1intake, 2compression, 3power, 4exhuast) which is compression, and the fuel explodes to early due to the compression = you have pre-ignition that will not allow the engine to run right, and will cause serious knock, and will ruin your engine. so manufacturers realized that 87 fuel is pretty much the lowest our cars can run on without developing pinging & knocking- because of the explosiveness of gasoline. but our knock sensors adjust to the timing of the ignition of the fuel. so we are fine to run 87 in a car that says super, and to run super in a car that says 87. nothing to do with cleanliness

Here we go again. I clearly state "I have done no research" and "take this only as an example" yet receive an arrogant reply.

So, I will do a little research for you. In my country we have a couple large gas stations and their links below indicate their 91 octane fuel is cleaner burning:
http://retail.petro-canada.ca/en/fuelsavings/140.aspx
http://www.shell.ca/home/content/can-en ... ll_vpower/
Therefore, the 91 octane fuel that is available to purchase does burn cleaner than the 87 octane fuel sold at the same stations and your theory is incorrect.

Oh wait, but now I'm going to hear the argument of "Well, it's the additives in the gas. I know that you cannot typically purchase gas without these additives but in a theoretical world where you could then the higher octane wouldn't make it burn cleaner". OK, fair enough. Let's assume we live in this make believe world.

Higher octane ratings relate to the ability to resist detonation of the fuel. Now the question is, does the detonation of fuel cause poor burning? Does this poor burning leave a by product that we could consider it "dirty"?
I'm not even going to attempt to investigate this properly because it is irrelevant with the fuel available at the retail level. If you are going to attempt to prove this I'd definitely recommend backing it with a little research.

Lastly you seem to prove my example 100% when you state that, with the knock sensors in place, our engines do not need the higher quality fuel and it is not worth the extra money. Stating that not everything that is "better" is necessarily worth while.


I'm not here to pick a fight, as far as I'm concerned we're having a discussion. What's important isn't who is right and who is wrong (and there's is no saying we cannot both be right or wrong) but the knowledge that you gain from it. For example, until reading a post (I think by you?) I paid no attention on how to remove the clips found all over the Rogue and came across the clips the other day while cleaning my grill. Yet I learned from that post how to do it because I didn't focus on refuting what they said but focused on understanding what they said (obviously a simple example). No single person knows everything there is to know and most certainly without formal education and training in the topic at hand cannot expect to come close.

Listening to understand leads to a healthier discussion. Listening to reply just leads to crap.

kerrton wrote:In the case of using synthetic oil in my car, its a no-brainer. The yearly costs are actually lower for me, and the potential benefits are much higher with a superior lubricant. Like you said Trevor, you have to look not only at the benefits, but how significant is the benefit and it seems to me that synth is significantly better.

If I was in a situation with my dealer to do what you're doing (synthetic oil changes at 6 months/12K (I assume you meant 12K)) for the same price as two conventional oil changes I would too just for the sheer fact I save a large amount of my time. I think it's great they will stand behind the extended interval because not only does it help you but you also generate less waste for the environment which would really add up if more people did it.

Those are some great points TrevorK, in particular regarding the spirit of a good/healthy conversation. That's what this forum is about, conversation, debate, learning from each other and having fun in the process. There's always going to be someone with a counterpoint or differing opinion and that's great, opposite opinions don't imply a conflict or argument. ImStricken has some passion behind his posts on this one, but I hope we can all realize that there's no disrespect intended.

Keep the discussion going, I'm enjoying this debate!!