Coilover & Control Arm Swap ?s

[NISMOdrift10]

I'm looking to build a budget drift car out of a big, heavy, v8 nissan product. I come from a long background in S-chasis cars, it's just been quite a while for me since my last one. And as any of the old-timers like myself know, the S13 market now is absurd compared to what it used to be, so I want to do something a little different. As all the G50 guys know, coilovers for the Q aren't exactly bolt in, and from the very few sources of information I've found, converting to an S-chasis front suspension set-up makes the job a hell of a lot easier.

HOWEVER, I've had an awful time finding much information regarding what combination of parts to use, what is interchangeable with what, and what is not in order to convert to an S-chasis style coilover in front. I did read in one thread that S14 front knuckles, FLCAs, and tie rod ends are needed to a full factory conversion in the front, allowing for elimination of the third member. But as most of us know, S14 front components are not super cheap, or easy to come by even anymore. Basically what I'm looking for is a breakdown of what my options are for suspension component interchangability. Don't tell me to search, I've done plenty of that with only a few threads, not enough to back up what I need and can use.

Thanks in advance for any helpful tips, or links. I will be posting a build thread in the relatively near future of my saloon slider project

[NISMOdrift10]

Man, nothing?! I don't have the parts inventory like I used to to do my own trial and error. I know there's a few of you swapped and modded Q45 guys out there!

[elwesso]

What's the goal here? Why would you go backwards getting rid of the Q's multilink front suspension and go to the 240SX's lighter duty and inferior McPherson strut setup? When you get in there, the S-chassis front suspension is junk compared to the Q, not to mention you'll probably break stuff drifting.

My suggestion on the suspension links is to go all POLY and be done with it. Poly bushings for Z32 will fit the Q, mainly in the upper links and lower control arm. Front tension rods are the same as S13/S14, as is the rest of the rear suspension.

Z32 coilovers can be made to work, and is the most practical option for a drift car.

You don't want to be monkeying around with S-chassis parts on a Q, you want to AT MINIMUM use Z32 parts.

[NISMOdrift10]

What's the goal here? Why would you go backwards getting rid of the Q's multilink front suspension and go to the 240SX's lighter duty and inferior McPherson strut setup? When you get in there, the S-chassis front suspension is junk compared to the Q, not to mention you'll probably break stuff drifting.

My suggestion on the suspension links is to go all POLY and be done with it. Poly bushings for Z32 will fit the Q, mainly in the upper links and lower control arm. Front tension rods are the same as S13/S14, as is the rest of the rear suspension.

Z32 coilovers can be made to work, and is the most practical option for a drift car.

You don't want to be monkeying around with S-chassis parts on a Q, you want to AT MINIMUM use Z32 parts.

Okay, fair enough. The goal here is simplicity and ease of replacement and modification. From what I've read in the few Q drift builds I've seen is that the third member in front causes issues with steering angle when the car is dropped aggressively. I'm not doubting the design of the vehicle by any means, but the couple people who have commented on it recommend eliminating the third member in front as it tends to cause more harm than good when sliding. Z32 parts are something I've also considered, however I do not know too much about what is interchangeable and what is not. It seems to be common knowledge on here that G50 coilovers are extremely pricey compared to those for S-chasis cars and Z-cars because of the unique front knuckle assembly in the early Qs. By converting to a more "conventional" style front knuckle, it allows the use of much more common and easily accessible coilover designs. However, let me restate that I'm just regurgitating what little information I've found. I'm an S-chasis old timer, and it's been years and years since I've even done any of that, so I'm a bit rusty with my Nissan suspension designs currently lol. And the McPherson strut design is a tried and retried and then tried again slidable suspension design. There isn't anything wrong with it, perse. I guess more of what I'm looking for is a link or some information regarding my different options for front coilovers and suspension modifications.

Thanks for the pointers regarding the poly bushings for the Z, something I'm definitely going to jot down.

[elwesso]

I'd be interested to see a little more detailed description.. The 3rd link always stays at the same "camber" angle relative to the wheel, so I don't see how dropping it would affect anything with the 3rd link and the wheel. You have to be careful with the offset and width of the wheel, because it IS possible to hit the 3rd link with too much offset (or too much width) at full wheel lock. That's probably what people are referring to. 8" wide wheels with about 35mm offset are a comfortable fit on the front in this application. By my estimates, you could get a 10" wide wheel in the back pretty easy if you wanted, Most of the drifters seem to go with those crazy wide wheels and stretched tires (don't understand that one??), so most likely it has to do with improper wheel and tire fitment rather than the actual suspension design itself.

Since the Z32 front suspension is basically identical to the Q, the Z32 stuff bolts right on. The front coilovers I believe only require you to drill another hole where the shock mount goes (or maybe (2) new holes)... The rears need an entirely new mount made, but it's pretty simple. There's lots of threads in this forum on what people have done. I can't remember many of the particulars, but I do know making Z32 coils fit would be **WAY** easier than trying to mix and match 240sx parts.

[NISMOdrift10]

Okay that'd make sense then. Maybe it was wide wheels and low offset. Ill have to see if I can find that thread. Because there was some criticism of the third member. I'm completely capable of some fabrication if need be, but of course for something that will get beat on pretty hard, interchangeability is key. If the Z32 stuff is useable then that's what's ill be doing! Plus Z parts are more suited for the weight than the comparable S components would be (regarding valving and spring rates) that's for sure. Thanks a lot for the input, ill see what else I can dig up off of that!

[elwesso]

Good luck and keep us up to date on what's going on... Feel free to hit me up with anything else. Those of us who have modified Q's are a dying breed

[IThaJ0kaI]

I'm looking to build a budget drift car

Not going to happen with a Q45, there is nothing budget about building one.

As far as suspension, the stock suspension works just fine, stock 3rd members work just fine. The problem is when people are running super low on air, the 3rd member his the upper control arm. On my daily(12/10kg springs) I had no issues with the front hitting. On my track car(14/12kg springs) even at a low ride height, I wont have any issues.

Also, it has nothing to do with the car getting angle as they arent in the way at all.

If you are looking for a budget car, stick with an s13, period. I came from an SR20 s13 and that was way cheaper/practical setup.

[IThaJ0kaI]

Since the Z32 front suspension is basically identical to the Q, the Z32 stuff bolts right on. The front coilovers I believe only require you to drill another hole where the shock mount goes (or maybe (2) new holes)... The rears need an entirely new mount made, but it's pretty simple. There's lots of threads in this forum on what people have done. I can't remember many of the particulars, but I do know making Z32 coils fit would be **WAY** easier than trying to mix and match 240sx parts.

Also this info, is kind of wrong.

z32 front suspension will bolt onto a 90-93 with just drilling out the topt hat holes a few MM, or running s14 rear top hats up front.
for a 94-96 you will need 90-93 3rd members, or to drill the lower mount to 22mm.

for the rear, z32 lower mounts are the exact same as 90-96 Q45. The top hat in the rear, is also the same as a S14 rear.

So for bolt on coilovers you need:

z32 coilovers
s14 rear top hats all around

[elwesso]

Great info, thanks for clearing that up.

[NISMOdrift10]

Not going to happen with a Q45, there is nothing budget about building one.

Eh, I'd say that's arguable. The car has the power. And it's unique, something drifting isn't too used to haha. 5-speed swap components aren't nearly as outrageously priced as I had anticipated, and coilovers seem to be pretty feasible now as well. A stiff 5-speed sedan with a V8 isn't a bad place to start, especially with some proper weight reduction mods, lol.

I've just had the itch to get back into sliding a car around, since it's been a little while, but the S-chasis market is nothing like it used to be. I've been feeling out several options aside from the usual S13/14 and with a close friend building a LS400 drift car, I had to at least see what the options were out there lol. I like the concept that it's unique and a bit of a challenge, that's why it interests me, and why I posted this in the first place.

Again, thanks for the input!

[IThaJ0kaI]

I am personally building a Q45 drift car, and it has not been cheap. I have enough into my car, to buy an SR car that would be driving and my car is not finished yet.

You aren't going to find a "cheap" used set of Q coils to be stiff, my daily on 12/10s rode super soft and that is a high spring rate for a z32. I had to order brand new BCs to get custom 14/12 rates.

There really isnt a lot of weight you can remove, they car is really heavy. My car has no interior, no abs, no sunroof, no air bags and a hybdrid z32 steering column. And total all of that might have weighed 200lbs.

Then talking 5 speed, its not "cheap". $400 adapter plate, $400 transmission, $400 stage 3 clutch, $100 flywheel, $200 driveshaft mod, $50-100 for a trans bracket, $50-100 for a z32 clutch pedal(or s13 but fits weird), master, slave.... Youre looking at like $1500+ just to 5 speed swap it.

my car

[NISMOdrift10]

Yeah I priced the swap out to $1300-1500 because I already had a few components kicking around. Figure $1000ish for a used or pieced together set of decent coils, and the initial $1000-1200 price for the car, at least around here and you're in a good starter car for $3000-4000 which is significantly cheaper than any half decent SR S13. Anything decent for a swapped s13 with sr with a few mods is usually $5k+ around here, unfortunately. It's affordable for a unique drift car, but like I said I was just pricing out a few options, that's all. Btw I love drift Qs, anymore pics?!

[elwesso]

Despite how heavy the Q's are, they are quite tossable with the right setup.. BTW I hope all of you drift guys have a rear sway bar from an active Q, that TRANSFORMS the vehicle's handling.

[IThaJ0kaI]

Yeah I priced the swap out to $1300-1500 because I already had a few components kicking around. Figure $1000ish for a used or pieced together set of decent coils, and the initial $1000-1200 price for the car, at least around here and you're in a good starter car for $3000-4000 which is significantly cheaper than any half decent SR S13. Anything decent for a swapped s13 with sr with a few mods is usually $5k+ around here, unfortunately. It's affordable for a unique drift car, but like I said I was just pricing out a few options, that's all. Btw I love drift Qs, anymore pics?!

Car isn't finished, like I said. But I do have a few pictures.

z32 tt brakes all around

personal monza w/ quick release

370z 6 speed bolted to my mock up engine

seat

Despite how heavy the Q's are, they are quite tossable with the right setup.. BTW I hope all of you drift guys have a rear sway bar from an active Q, that TRANSFORMS the vehicle's handling.

Actually a lot of drifters do not run sway bars, depending on the track. My daily has a sway bar and I have one for my drift car, but i will be taking it on/off messing with suspension settings to find the right setup for me.

[NISMOdrift10]

^^^ this is wonderful. You aren't doing a great job of convincing me out of doing this haha.

side note: I thought I had read somewhere that the Z32 brakes were not really upgrades for the Q because the Q brakes were just as large from the factory? Maybe I misread that?

[elwesso]

The major advantage by running the Z32 brakes (why I run them) is pads and rotors are cheaper and there's a lot more options in terms of race pads, etc, but the Q brakes are just as strong as the Z brakes so for most owners i don't recommend changing them.

The calipers have the same clamping force, as the Z32 has (4) small pistons vs (2) bigger ones. Also I believe the pad swept area on the Z32 is a little smaller than the Q45.

[IThaJ0kaI]

^^^ this is wonderful. You aren't doing a great job of convincing me out of doing this haha.

side note: I thought I had read somewhere that the Z32 brakes were not really upgrades for the Q because the Q brakes were just as large from the factory? Maybe I misread that?

Not really trying to convince you not to, but it is not a cheap or easy venture. A lot of stuff has to be done just to make this car work right. As far as the z32 brakes, they are and upgrade but its not a huge amount. There was 3 big reasons why I swapped to z32 stuff:

1 - bought a parts car and the brakes ended up being free, win.
2 - the rear brakes are fixed, not floating so they work better with a hydro ebrake(which I have installed *pbm*)
3 - I want to run Z33 front rotors with the z32 calipers and adapter.

The major advantage by running the Z32 brakes (why I run them) is pads and rotors are cheaper and there's a lot more options in terms of race pads, etc, but the Q brakes are just as strong as the Z brakes so for most owners i don't recommend changing them.

The calipers have the same clamping force, as the Z32 has (4) small pistons vs (2) bigger ones. Also I believe the pad swept area on the Z32 is a little smaller than the Q45.

floating brakes are just a pain in the a**, pins freeze up from heat and cause them to only wear one side of the pads.

I believe the clamping force is a little higher on the Z32s but not a whole lot, but that wasn't my main reason as I said above. Free brakes and the z32 rears would look stupid with stock fronts =\

[campbelljj]

We have a full suspension setup available from our 91 G50 that was unfortunately in an accident and totaled. This includes adjustable arms, poly bushings, and JIC SF-1 Coilovers for the g50. the coilovers were not on the car at the time of accident. you can see my post in infiniti parts for sale. email me at [email protected] if you have any questions or interest.

[Turbon8er]

i'm soooooo glad to see this post. i've been hesitating to make one, but like the op said, it's a mess deciphering the search results on this topic. I'm in the midst of bringing my 95.4 Q back to life and trying to anticipate the suspension setup. Going in a street cruiser direction though, as the 240 sees enough abuse and i'd like to keep this one comfy, lol.

I was a little surprised to hear you say that 12/10 rate was Soft, but i guess with the added weight that makes sense.

Everyone says if using the z32 rear coil over on the Q, it will never be low enough, and instead to use the Front all around (x4) and s14 top mounts? i believe i saw a post of theJapino using that setup?

i'm fuzzy on a few things, but i need sleep. i'll check back in with more later.

[IThaJ0kaI]

i'm soooooo glad to see this post. i've been hesitating to make one, but like the op said, it's a mess deciphering the search results on this topic. I'm in the midst of bringing my 95.4 Q back to life and trying to anticipate the suspension setup. Going in a street cruiser direction though, as the 240 sees enough abuse and i'd like to keep this one comfy, lol.

I was a little surprised to hear you say that 12/10 rate was Soft, but i guess with the added weight that makes sense.

Everyone says if using the z32 rear coil over on the Q, it will never be low enough, and instead to use the Front all around (x4) and s14 top mounts? i believe i saw a post of theJapino using that setup?

i'm fuzzy on a few things, but i need sleep. i'll check back in with more later.

That is the setup I am running, but it is not needed if you're just making a decently low daily. Z32 rear coilovers will allow the car to damn near tuck rim on an 18" wheel.

This is my daily on 12/10 cusco zero-1 for z32 with drilled front mounts and home made tophats(this was before I found out that s14 top hats bolt in and let everyone know lol)
17/18 stagger



this is 17s all around

[Turbon8er]

So... you're running 4 z32 fronts? I'm wondering how much adjustment is left with each setup, ie- does the Rear z32 have to be at bottomed out to be low enough to look decent, and if using the Front z32 coilover in the Q45 rear means sitting on the top most threads to achieve the same height as slamming the Rear coils down. ugghhh.

So basically my setup will be the G35 19" Rays Split five spoke staggered ( 8, 8.5j) and i'm not trying to ride on 30 series tires an inch from the ground. Maybe 2-2.5 inches above how the gold Q^ is sitting. Right now the tires on them are 225/45 Front and 275/45 Rear (probly too big to clear the oem springs, i have yet to test fit), but those will change since they look terribly unbalanced and i want a meaty tire for rough roads.

i was originally thinking of doing bags, because i love the quick height option, but i anticipate the handling will suffer significantly for how i enjoy driving. Now i'm leaning towards doing coilovers with a "cup" kit. My buddy just did one on his s2000 (D2 with swift springs) and it's pretty badass while very functional.

[IThaJ0kaI]

So... you're running 4 z32 fronts? I'm wondering how much adjustment is left with each setup, ie- does the Rear z32 have to be at bottomed out to be low enough to look decent, and if using the Front z32 coilover in the Q45 rear means sitting on the top most threads to achieve the same height as slamming the Rear coils down. ugghhh.

So basically my setup will be the G35 19" Rays Split five spoke staggered ( 8, 8.5j) and i'm not trying to ride on 30 series tires an inch from the ground. Maybe 2-2.5 inches above how the gold Q^ is sitting. Right now the tires on them are 225/45 Front and 275/45 Rear (probly too big to clear the oem springs, i have yet to test fit), but those will change since they look terribly unbalanced and i want a meaty tire for rough roads.

i was originally thinking of doing bags, because i love the quick height option, but i anticipate the handling will suffer significantly for how i enjoy driving. Now i'm leaning towards doing coilovers with a "cup" kit. My buddy just did one on his s2000 (D2 with swift springs) and it's pretty badass while very functional.

Black car - z32 coils, 4 front struts, s14 rear tophats x4.
gold car - z32 coils, custom rear top hats.

Black car can tuck 2.5" of a 18" wheel in the rear, I didn't need it to go that low but it happened.
Gold car is at the lowest height possible WITHOUT spring droop, the spring is still preloaded at that current height.

So basically to answer your question, in your case just Z32 coilovers will go PLENTY low for you. The wheels on the back of my gold car are 18x10 w/ 225/40 and the fender is ~.5" from the rim lip. And I still have ~2" of adjustment as far as spring droop to go lower.