BREAKING NEWS: Nissan Skyline Seized

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Welcome to America, land of the fr.... hmmm, wait a minute. :ohnoes2


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I'm spreading the word and joined Sema san.

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Looking good, guys - I'm starting to see some buzz elsewhere on the 'net.

Remember, if you have Facebook, MySpace, Twitter, etc - Help get the word out!

andy107
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Since we are on debate involving Immigration and Customs Enforcement taking our cars away. On the News headline 2 days ago.."ICE intelligence chief suspended in fraud probe"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41879590/ns ... -security/

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Izento
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Glad I logged into Nico just to check this out. Signed up and keeping an eye out!

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AZhitman
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Welcome aboard, Izento!

If there's anything else we can help with, just hit up one of the staff!

SpawnedX
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SAN & DSMer here just wanting you to know we support you guys and think this is a bunch of bureaucratic BS. I am posting a link to the article up in a few places as well as on my Facebook. I wish you guys the best of luck in your fight and I will do my part at my local level of SAN and get the word out.

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AZhitman
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Welcome aboard, Spawned!

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SpawnedX wrote:SAN & DSMer here just wanting you to know we support you guys and think this is a bunch of bureaucratic BS. I am posting a link to the article up in a few places as well as on my Facebook. I wish you guys the best of luck in your fight and I will do my part at my local level of SAN and get the word out.
Awesome, man! Glad to see other communities getting involved!

EDIT: Google search "seized skyline" and the second page, top result is a NASOIC thread about this, with a link to here.

NTRacing
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I guess I would be curious as to what is considered unlawful about the ownership of this car. If the big issue is with the car being operated on the road then I can see where they would have some laws in place to prevent this (being unwilling to register said car for use on a public road). I cannot, however, see how simple ownership would result in instant seizure.

If they are contending that merely possessing the car on American soil is illegal then there is a very serious issue and some very uneven application of the law. If this is the case then it should be assumed that ownership of said car for motorsport (track only) and or show purposes is also illegal.

A previous poster compared the ownership of a Skyline to the possession of an illicit substance. While I can see this making a wonderfully dramatic and inflammatory point, I have yet to attend a race or car show where drugs were legal. If the law is so black and white as this poster would see it, then why are these automotive equivalents to crack allowed to race up Pike's Peak every year, not to mention countless other events. Will this year set a new trend with all non-U.S. production vehicles seized at races all over the country? Will ICE agent's be on hand to take possession of EVO III's taking part in SCCA Pro Rally events? I think not, and that is where the nice black and white picture falls apart. All of this says to me that while it may be illegal to drive a Skyline in the states, it certainly is NOT illegal to own one.

One could argue that Vandrel's car was taken because of street use, but nothing from the agents validates that. They arrived having witnessed no use of the vehicle and clearly under some other wild assumptions. I find it rude almost to the point of belligerence to blindly jump on the government bandwagon and throw around a slew of unproductive, non-contributing comments. I also seriously doubt anyone on this board would consider car testing more important that cancer treatments.

My apologies for a long winded first post, but I am a stickler of equity in all things, especially law and personal possession. Best of luck in your struggle to right this egregious wrong!

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On board, signed up for SEMA last night. Lets get something done about this. Next thing you know, they'll be going after motor swaps. :(

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dickie
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I have a big important question: What are the feds doing with Paul Walker's R34? Doesn't he still personally own that car? I heard it was being used in the new movie they filmed recently...

If someone with a high profile was caught in this s***, it would help the case for everyone else.

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RicerX
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I know several R34s from the most recent F&F were seized. And they were movie cars. This whole situation is such garbage it makes me sick.

I know he owns one or two of them. He had a white one that was featured in Super Street a few years ago. For some reason I think one of his was in fact seized. I'll need to dig up an article.

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d!ck wrote:I have a big important question: What are the feds doing with Paul Walker's R34? Doesn't he still personally own that car? I heard it was being used in the new movie they filmed recently...

If someone with a high profile was caught in this bullsh*t, it would help the case for everyone else.
Paul Walker's white R34 was a Motorex car from what I have seen online, thus, it was "grandfathered in".

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HashiriyaS14
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So what's the justification for the seizure?


They can only seize it if you'd been driving it on public roads, yes?

Owning it is fine, so long as it's a track-only car, right? (i.e. Teddy Danh's R32)

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OriginalWheelman
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First of all, NTRacing, I'm not even going to get into what's wrong with your post. Read the import guidelines and you can see that the Skylines CAN be legally imported for race and show. Your ignorance to the situation is what is causing your confusion.

Secondly, what a lot of people seem to be missing is that this guy was not simply target for owning a skyline. He was accused of owning a black market import business. In the process of that investigation the feds researched the origin of his skyline, and determined it was illegal. He had two other cars that were legally imported that were also investigated and NOT seized.

Lastly, the guy goes on and on about how not everyone can be expected to know all the import laws. While this is understandable and true, there are two things about this. First of all, ignorance of the law is NEVER an acceptable excuse in the US. Also, this guy obviously knew the import law quite well as he had arrangements made for the legal exportation and sale of the car as the law allows. He didn't really lose anything here, as he sold the car, it was not seized.

This guy can claim the victim as much as he wants, but I'll bet he knew what he was getting into. In the end, they are all just machines. No matter how much someone may want one, the car was not conformed to US requirements, and is not legal for road use in the US. Period. The legal importation requires modifying the car to MAKE IT CONFORM. This is what the registered importers do, and this is why they must be used. They are held liable for the car being legalized. It is not simply a matter of the RI doing some paperwork. I can't feel sorry for someone who bought an illegal car and got it seized. If you choose to not play by the rules, you choose to accept the consequences.

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dickie
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I don't think it's an issue of finding holes in the government's reasoning as they will do what they want, when they want and they don't need justification. If they are found to have acted without a justifiable cause, worst case scenario for them is they issue an apology. They won't be giving people's cars or money back.

JOSHMELE
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I posted the link on Facebook and joined SAN...I would like to do my part to help too.

Unfortunately Sean is right, qualified attorneys aren't cheap...and it's going to take a lot of cash to fight for the right to own these vehicles.

I also despise the fatalistic attitudes toward the gov't and other agencies. Problem is, none of us are in a hurry to throw large sums of hard-earned cash into the 'fight the man' pot (Sean included). Yes, I know time IS money...but maybe another solution is to set up a "FREE THE SKYLINE" Paypal link at the bottom of that article that everyone is virally posting to FB. Even if we can't all contribute $3k each, there has always been power in numbers and people DO want to help.
(BTW $15k is a conservative estimate...much more has been spent to fight this fight by Kaizo owners).

No isn't the final answer people, you DO have a choice...we don't always have to roll over and say "that's the way it is".

Thank you HITMAN, Vandrel, Tyndago and the rest of you for your help and support.
Last edited by JOSHMELE on Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

skyrocket5
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I found a link to this thread from an article about the seizure on Jalopnik. I don't own any Nissans but I am here to help. I have signed up for the SEMASAN and am getting my local Mazda club (MazdasNW) into helping support this issue. I am going to post this on my Facebook, twitter, on all car related forums I visit, and in my signatures at other forums.

the_garynator
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JOSHMELE wrote:I posted the link on Facebook and joined SAN...I would also like to do my part to help too.

Unfortunately Sean is right, qualified attorneys aren't cheap...and it's going to take a lot of cash to fight to fight for the right to own these vehicles.

I also despise the fatalistic attitudes toward the gov't and other agencies. Problem is, none of us are in a hurry to throw large sums of hard-earned cash into the 'fight the man' pot (Sean included). Yes, I know time IS money...but maybe another solution is to set up a "FREE THE SKYLINE" Paypal link at the bottom of that article that everyone is virally posting to FB. Even if we can't all contribute $3k each, there has always been power in numbers and people DO want to help.
(BTW $15k is a conservative estimate...much more has been spent to fight this fight by Kaizo owners).

No isn't the final answer people, you DO have a choice...we don't always have to roll over and say "that's the way it is".

Thank you HITMAN, Vandrel, Tyndago and the rest of you for your help and support.
I agree, I for one would be willing to donate to the cause. I would just have to know that it isn't going into someone's pocket.
I know a lot of people who would also be willing to help.

-Gary

turbonxsx

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OriginalWheelman wrote:First of all, NTRacing, I'm not even going to get into what's wrong with your post. Read the import guidelines and you can see that the Skylines CAN be legally imported for race and show. Your ignorance to the situation is what is causing your confusion.

Secondly, what a lot of people seem to be missing is that this guy was not simply target for owning a skyline. He was accused of owning a black market import business. In the process of that investigation the feds researched the origin of his skyline, and determined it was illegal. He had two other cars that were legally imported that were also investigated and NOT seized.

Lastly, the guy goes on and on about how not everyone can be expected to know all the import laws. While this is understandable and true, there are two things about this. First of all, ignorance of the law is NEVER an acceptable excuse in the US. Also, this guy obviously knew the import law quite well as he had arrangements made for the legal exportation and sale of the car as the law allows. He didn't really lose anything here, as he sold the car, it was not seized.

This guy can claim the victim as much as he wants, but I'll bet he knew what he was getting into. In the end, they are all just machines. No matter how much someone may want one, the car was not conformed to US requirements, and is not legal for road use in the US. Period. The legal importation requires modifying the car to MAKE IT CONFORM. This is what the registered importers do, and this is why they must be used. They are held liable for the car being legalized. It is not simply a matter of the RI doing some paperwork. I can't feel sorry for someone who bought an illegal car and got it seized. If you choose to not play by the rules, you choose to accept the consequences.
Good point but this shouldn't stop us from fighting for our rights to modify cars. It doesn't matter what type of vehicle we have, we should be on top of new and bogus laws that threaten our way of life and hobbies...

VandrelSOUSA
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the_garynator wrote:
JOSHMELE wrote:I posted the link on Facebook and joined SAN...I would also like to do my part to help too.

Unfortunately Sean is right, qualified attorneys aren't cheap...and it's going to take a lot of cash to fight to fight for the right to own these vehicles.

I also despise the fatalistic attitudes toward the gov't and other agencies. Problem is, none of us are in a hurry to throw large sums of hard-earned cash into the 'fight the man' pot (Sean included). Yes, I know time IS money...but maybe another solution is to set up a "FREE THE SKYLINE" Paypal link at the bottom of that article that everyone is virally posting to FB. Even if we can't all contribute $3k each, there has always been power in numbers and people DO want to help.
(BTW $15k is a conservative estimate...much more has been spent to fight this fight by Kaizo owners).

No isn't the final answer people, you DO have a choice...we don't always have to roll over and say "that's the way it is".

Thank you HITMAN, Vandrel, Tyndago and the rest of you for your help and support.
I agree, I for one would be willing to donate to the cause. I would just have to know that it isn't going into someone's pocket.
I know a lot of people who would also be willing to help.

-Gary
http://www.clc34.blogspot.com/

VandrelSOUSA
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OriginalWheelman wrote:This guy can claim the victim as much as he wants, but I'll bet he knew what he was getting into.


I can't feel sorry for someone who bought an illegal car and got it seized. If you choose to not play by the rules, you choose to accept the consequences.
Actually no, I didn't jump into the Skyline business as a expert from day 1. I was a regular person just like everyone else on the outside. My car carried a valid U.S. title. As a average joe American obtaining a new vehicle...what's the first thing you look for? Valid title and if it requires a notary public to be transfered in your state. Like I said, my car carried a very extensive history that I did not find out until later. I could only personally account for 4 years of the car's existance in the country, the other 4 I could not because it was owned by other people in various states, all titled of course. I know the previous 2 owners of the car very well but again, on day 1 I didn't know anything other then hey it's a car with a valid title.

So yes, I can play the victim card as much as I want to, if I want to. Most everyone knows how to buy and transfer ownership of a vehicle in this country, not everyone knows about importing cars and documents that are supposed to accompany them. Who should the fault default to? The states for approving and transfering said titles?

Over the course of my ownership I slowly became well informed and educated on the laws and history of Skylines in the country, which eventually lead to me becoming the leader of the largest community in the country for these cars. Yes, presently I know more then the average joe, before I didn't have a clue. Victim? You tell me. I'm not crying about anything, I'm not sweating a bit, and I'm not pleaing for help to keep my car. The car is a done deal and I've expressed my feelings that I don't care, it's not about me or the car, it's about everyone else at this point.

We, the folks at SOUSA, are trying to put our collective resources and contacts to work for the good of the entire automotive community but mostly our internal community.

NTRacing
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OriginalWheelman wrote:First of all, NTRacing, I'm not even going to get into what's wrong with your post. Read the import guidelines and you can see that the Skylines CAN be legally imported for race and show. Your ignorance to the situation is what is causing your confusion.

Secondly, what a lot of people seem to be missing is that this guy was not simply target for owning a skyline. He was accused of owning a black market import business. In the process of that investigation the feds researched the origin of his skyline, and determined it was illegal. He had two other cars that were legally imported that were also investigated and NOT seized.

Lastly, the guy goes on and on about how not everyone can be expected to know all the import laws. While this is understandable and true, there are two things about this. First of all, ignorance of the law is NEVER an acceptable excuse in the US. Also, this guy obviously knew the import law quite well as he had arrangements made for the legal exportation and sale of the car as the law allows. He didn't really lose anything here, as he sold the car, it was not seized.

This guy can claim the victim as much as he wants, but I'll bet he knew what he was getting into. In the end, they are all just machines. No matter how much someone may want one, the car was not conformed to US requirements, and is not legal for road use in the US. Period. The legal importation requires modifying the car to MAKE IT CONFORM. This is what the registered importers do, and this is why they must be used. They are held liable for the car being legalized. It is not simply a matter of the RI doing some paperwork. I can't feel sorry for someone who bought an illegal car and got it seized. If you choose to not play by the rules, you choose to accept the consequences.
OriginalWheelman, thank you for your kind words and your accurate regurgitation of Vandrel's situation. I am well aware of the facts surrounding what transpired. My post was directed at comments made by Encryptshun earlier in the thread. Perhaps I should have quoted it directly in order to help you understand that. I, for one, thought I was quite clear on that point.

Encryptshun had compared the car to an illicit substance and stated that as an illicit substance it was subject to seizure at any point in time. The point of my post was to show the ignorance in that statement as clearly the cars can be owned in the U.S. I understand how your inability to comprehend my post must have angered you to the point of lashing out at someone new to this forum rather that approaching them in a respectful manner. Long live the anonymity of the interwebs I suppose.

It's clear that Vandrel at this point is only trying to help other Skyline owners and it's a shame that he is vilified for it (by some, certainly most people on this thread have been very supportive). I certainly respect someone standing up for the principal of a situation even if it isn't currently legal. If everyone shared the "you knew it was illegal, it serves you right" then this would be a sad country indeed, and we would be neck deep in archaic laws because of blind acceptance without a thought for whether a law is right or wrong.

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Otto.
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I posted it up on Twitter.

This is a ridiculous waste of time, effort, and money.

Good luck to Greg and Vandrel.

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srphoenix
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Posted this up on facebook and joined SEMA. I'll be shooting off emails to my direct representatives as well once Wisconsin's political situation calms down a bit.

OwnerCS
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Here's a picture..

Image

turbonxsx

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OwnerCS wrote:Here's a picture..

Image
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:

maxxdsix
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Sent this to Jalopnik to get the word to spread farther and faster.
Hey guys,

Saw this on my local forum and the link sent me to nicoclub, seems as if the govt is trying to crack down harder on skylines than ever before, and that costs alot of money. Just trying to get this out there because it needs to be known that the govt is wasting money for no reason, lets see if you guys can help this guy out like you did with my Mazda friends and the unknownpowdercoating guy.

This is a sad thing for all in the car enthusiast community to see when one of these precious cars gets seized and crushed/sold to someone in the govt. Let's just say that the DOD spending $600+ on a toilet seat leads one to wonder how much their spending on taking these beautiful cars. They must be stopped and the only way to make a change is to get the word out!

Link: http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/breaki ... wners.html

Link to nicoclub discussion : breaking-news-nissan-skyline-seized-t525694.html

Link to my local forum discussion where I first heard (tristatetuners) : http:// http://www.tristatetuners.com/forum/sho ... p?t=111490

Hopefully you can put this up, im sure you've already gotten some tips about this anyway, but I figured it couldn't hurt.

Thanks,

Max
Reply:
Thanks Max, we're working on it.
---------------------------
Justin Hyde
Features Editor
http://www.jalopnik.com
Posted:
http://jalopnik.com/#!5775509/feds-laun ... ine-owners

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Good deal :)


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