Blown 25 AMP fuse for power windows

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Infinitiguy19
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OK so today I went to a Junkyard and found a nice looking white J30t. I took off the door lock timer, one multi-remote relay and the multi-remote unit. I went home and on my way home I was using the windows (opening and closing them as needed) and when I got home my power door locks, power windows and sun roof didn't work.

Now whats Ironic about this is that I planned on installing the keyless entry system from a J30 onto a Q45 and I wanted to have the windows and sun roof hooked up to the lock and unlock signal (door lock). So the fuse blowing and making those systems inoperable is SCARY, Creepy...ON f***ING HALLOW f***ING WEEN.

So I replaced the fuse and the windows worked fine and so did the sun roof and door locks. Now the funny part is the Power Window section of the service manual is a repeat of the wiring diagram for power door locks so that's no use.

But this is a scary sign that I SHOULD NOT install the keyless entry from a J30 onto a Q45. But why couldn't this happen before I studied EVERY wire for the keyless entry, power door locks and sun roof???
Modified by Paul Wall at 7:08 PM 10/31/2009


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yodawill2000
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The Q Spirits are haunting you !!! nuk nuk

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Infinitiguy19
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Maybe I will give it a week and see what happens, If the fuse does'nt blow I will call it a coincidence.

But I would think the J spirts would be more mad after what I did to that J30. And there is the fact that I am I taking parts from one car to put on another.

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Infinitiguy19
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Today it happened again after letting the car sit overnight. So I replaced the fuse and it imediatly blew I checked the connectors on the fuse and fuse box and they are fine. Only 23-24 AMPs and 12.66 (Battery Votage) was going though the fuse.

So I trashed the J30 keyless entry stuff, unplugged the battery and let it sit for 10 seconds and it worked. Now has a circuit breaker gone bad on a G50 Q45?

qship96
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Wise idea scrapping the makeshift marriage of J to Q parts.....as diagnostics of old Q are complicated enough without jury-rigging electrical system.

Real question you gotta ask yourself is should that circuit have ANY amp draw going through it when not operating the windows/roof/etc.....maybe indicating a short somewhere in the wiring or other problem if constant high amperage draw????

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Infinitiguy19
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Well the Idea isn't scrapped yet... I just need to get the parts from a car not in a accident and bring the priest from my church to bless the car.

But this happend again tonight as my dad was in the car the Automatic Driver Postioner failed and thats how he knew. But its failing faster and faster now and nothing is tied into those systems.

So I am thinking the circuit breaker might be bad or at least one of them, But where they are tied in together that makes things harder.


qship96
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Paul Wall wrote: Only 23-24 AMPs and 12.66 (Battery Votage) was going though
The above quote is the key clue to your problem if 23-24 amps are being drawn when NOT operating the window/sunroof/etc ......should be NO amps drawn when not using these motors!!!!

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Infinitiguy19
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Sorry but I am a dumbass when it comes to this stuff...But could a relay be sticking open or even a circuit breaker.

I am suprised because we have our differnces but despite them your helping me so THANK YOU.

Victor
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Was your Q45 parked in sight of the J30 you were canabalizing? If so that was your mistake. You shouldn't have let your Q see what you were doing to the J. It will never forgive you.

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Infinitiguy19
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Nope was'nt even close to it the building was blocking its view.

qship96
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I dont think there should be ANY amp draw when you are not actually trying to open/close windows/sunroof/move steering wheel....sounds more like a short in a wire or motor stuck drawing current.....maybe the easiest way to diagnose is to write down EVERYTHING that fuse/circuit controls then unplug one thing on that list at a time while measuring amp draw and see exactly what system is causing the amp draw while not being operated.......when amp draw goes to zero you have isolated the subsystem with the issue{ window motor? sunroof? steering wheel control?etc?

I dont think the circuit breaker is the problem....something is causing a huge amp draw to trip the breaker....you must find it to cure the problem!!!!

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Infinitiguy19
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I will check EVERTHING I can thats not a pain tommorow. But I can hear the cicuit breaker switch on and stay on for 8 seconds because I try to raise all four windows at the same time, Or close the sun roof and the three windows at the same time. So your right its not the circuit breaker I am think door lock timer or any relays. So I will stick with the power windows and sun roof system for now.

I can tell you that the power windows and sun roof have one circuit breaker and the power door locks, power seat and automatic driver postion system have another. then they come together on to one wire and go to the 25 AMP fuse. After the 25 AMP fuse they go to the 75 AMP fuese then after there they got to the Fusible Link Box (Fuse Box (Engine Bay)) and then the battery.

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Infinitiguy19
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OK I I unplugged the door lock timer and nothing changed. I can hear the motor clicking from the passenger seat when I move the seat control in any direction. I unplugged the sun roof switch and no chage. I hit the cancel switch for the Automatic Driver Postioner in hopes that no electricity would flow to it...But no change.

And there ar'nt many things that piss me off like I am but clearly this one struck a nerver. I can't even think of anything else but this f***ing problem.

The fuse does blow instantly when put in so I will try this:
Q45tech wrote:Measure the resistance to ground with fuse removed [on output side].13.77 ohms is 1 ampere so 1.37 ohms is 10 amperes................the lower the resistance below 1.37 ohms the faster the fuse blows. [also depends on ambient temperature since resistance goes up as temp increases.]

The point is to gleen the distance of the short from fuse since every wire has some tiny resistance per foot.http://www.radiolocman.com/she...18899

Inspect all lamp sockets and bulbs.

After you make thousands of measurements your mind develops a solving strategy.

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Infinitiguy19
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I replaced the door lock, power seat and ADP circuit breaker and no significant change. But when I unplugged the circuit breaker and checked to see if there is any usage on the fuse I found that there was 2.25 AMPs. The window and sunroof circuit breaker plugged in and the door locks, ADP and power seat unplugged.

So I am out of idea's.

Can someone confirm that there is no AMPs used when everthing is powered off with the key out of the ignition and the doors closed?

Victor
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You have to keep breaking the circuit at various points until you find the culprit. As a last resort maybe you could replace the 25 amp fuse with a piece of wire and see which wire melts and burns up. Then you know which one it was.

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Infinitiguy19
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Actually I am out of fuses but I don't get how to break the circuit like your saying. And I would rather not screw up the harness just to find the bad wire, But thanks for the idea.

Using this calculator: http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/page2.asp I got: 0.55043 OHM's. Since there is 23 AMPs and 12.66 Volts (Battery Voltage). Whats that mean other than the fuse blows super fast.
Modified by Paul Wall at 9:47 PM 11/3/2009

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Have you made any other electrical changes or done any electrical work lately? These things are usually a result of a seemingly "unrelated" repair.

Oh, and stop being so superstitious about the J parts. Like my wife once said, after I bought an a/c evaporator out of a truck that was totaled in a fatal wreck... "if someone's soul exited their body and the best thing it could find to lodge itself into was an a/c evaporator, there's a real problem here."

It's still keeping my old truck cool, and no hauntings to my knowledge.

Heath
Modified by Q451990 at 1:35 AM 11/4/2009

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Q451990
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As a last resort, you can always jump out the fuse location and look for the smoke

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Infinitiguy19
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Nope I was how ever THINKING of tapping a wire for the alarm disarm on the Q but never got around to it.

But I wish I could stopp beleving in this stuff but my Dad had a 1989 Pontiac Lemans SE and he got a fog light off the same car but was smashed in the front end badly. Well guess what happended to his car, That was in 1998. Now in 2008 I got a fuel tank to replace the one that a mechanic messed up by using longer screws and I take it was from a smashed car too because the same happened to the 1991 Q45 I had. I broke my right wrist in 1998 and broke the left one in 2008.

s*** happens but this is some weird a** s***.

And I could try to jump the fuse so I can see where the smoke is comming from. But if I do that I might as well hang up the towel and let the car burn, Thats what my Dad wants to do this car anyways LOL.

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Infinitiguy19
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OK measured the OHM's coming from that fuse and I got ZERO infact it said my battery was low when I tried to OHM it. But the battery is brand new....So any help on this problem is appreciated I will pay in my spare parts if needed.

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Q451990
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Were you measuring across the two pins (e.g. two blades that fit into the 25A fuse) with the fuse removed?

Heath

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Infinitiguy19
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Yes.

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You don't ohm batteries, Ohms is a measure of resistance. You might measure how many volts or amps a battery is putting out, but if you set your multimeter on ohms and put it across the battery terminals you would burn it out unless it had a fuse or circuit breaker built in to the meter to protect it. Batteries do have something called internal resiistance, but you would have to be an engineer to set up the measurement with some precision test equipment.

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Infinitiguy19
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Paul Wall wrote:OK measured the OHM's coming from that fuse and I got ZERO infact it said my battery was low when I tried to OHM it. But the battery is brand new....So any help on this problem is appreciated I will pay in my spare parts if needed.
I OHMed the fuse Not the battery.

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Infinitiguy19
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Where is ground M109 located?

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh...tlink

I ask because I may have accidently unplugged it, But if so would it cause the current clusterf***?

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Q451990
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Might as well check it to make sure it's right. Would you have accidentially disconnected it about the same time this issue showed up?

Heath

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Infinitiguy19
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I would love to check it but I can't find it.

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Q451990
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How do you know that you might have possibly maybe disconnected it if you don't know where it is?

Heath

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Infinitiguy19
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I am going to come clean and say this despite all the negative comments I will receive. I misread the multimeter and instead of 23 AMPs its actually 2.40 Mili-AMPs. But the thing is that the number doesn't change when the circuit breakers are unplugged (There is nothing attached to the circuit beside fuses and a battery after that).

So is 2.40 mili-amps fine or is there still a problem there?

I talked with PMQ* and he said: "he meter is measuring its own current draw. Some current is passing through the meter through the circuit".

So what would explain the fuse blowing the second I put it in even if the 2.40 mili amps is a constant number shown on the VOM?

I started the car up and the resistance went up to 2.70 mili-amps but I assume thats just because the car is on.

Again sorry for the wrong numbers and any help or scolding along with help is appreciated.

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Q451990
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You are reading resistance of the circuit between the fuse socket and the spot where you're pulling the circuit breaker. So you know that the problem is on the other side of one of the breakers.

Heath


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