Blown 25 AMP fuse for power windows

Post by **rioredstang** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:55 am

OK Paul I will look up power distribution on that circuit tomorrow. We can break down each component and see who's causing the short. I'm not concerned with amp draw at this time.

Post by **Infinitiguy19** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:33 pm

Q451990 wrote:The readings are close enough that they're probably within the margin of error between the two meters.

The circuit breaker should not be directional.

Heath

The multimeter's are identical but the temps the reading were taken at isn't.

rioredstang wrote:OK Paul I will look up power distribution on that circuit tomorrow. We can break down each component and see who's causing the short. I'm not concerned with amp draw at this time.

The circuit breaker literally went up in smoke...I had the power window, seat and ADP circuit breaker plugged in already and the systems worked when I plugged the 25 AMP circuit breaker. But then I decided to take a risk and plug in the power window and I saw smoke coming from somewhere near the SMJ*. I did'nt see the exact place the smoke was coming from because I was worried about the smoke.

So lesson learned: Circuit breakers suck No disrespect but be careful who's advice you follow on a forum.

Thankfully I found the reason there is water in my trunk I think. I fixed the dome light where one bulb stop lighting up.

I hope when I get a fuse that the windows, door locks...All work because the multimeter says they are OK but I want to be sure. The multimeter registers 12.xx volts and 2.xx ohms.

Post by **rioredstang** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:36 pm

Paul I work on car electrical systems all day, every day. I use breakers all the time because fuses cost to much to blow all the time. Now with that said if you had smoke coming from the breaker it was bad. It had to be shorted internally. I have never had a breaker smoke. I have had circuits shorted to ground and the breaker will just trip. The longer I leave it hooked up the quicker it will trip. Also they may get a little hot but no smoke. I don't know where you got the breaker but I would open it up and see what happened.

Post by **Infinitiguy19** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:58 pm

Well it could be bad but I have never bought a brand new thing and have it be bad. But if you don't mind call me up at 978-903-0210 because I need this fixed ASAP. I am willing to give any person that helps me fix it a Google Wave and Voice invite.

Post by **Q451990** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:35 pm

I hate to say it, but maybe it's time for professional help.

Heath

Post by **customrodsod** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:36 am

Not sure if this would be the correct forum for this but does anybody have the complete power seat wiring diagram for a 95 Q45. I am trying to wire up a set of these seats in to a 1950 Buick for a guy, and they are way more labor intensive then what I bargained for. It also looks like somebody has tried once to wire them in and gave up, so matching and reconnecting some wires may be pretty difficult without a diagram for the module. They are heated too if that matters. Any help would be greatly appreciated! -Chris [email protected]

Post by **Infinitiguy19** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:00 pm

customrodsod wrote:Not sure if this would be the correct forum for this but does anybody have the complete power seat wiring diagram for a 95 Q45. I am trying to wire up a set of these seats in to a 1950 Buick for a guy, and they are way more labor intensive then what I bargained for. It also looks like somebody has tried once to wire them in and gave up, so matching and reconnecting some wires may be pretty difficult without a diagram for the module. They are heated too if that matters. Any help would be greatly appreciated! -Chris [email protected]

See the service manual: [URL]Nicoclub.com/FSM[/URL.

Anyways I think the problem is fixed but the two right windows don't do anything. But after burning up the circuit breaker and seeing some smoke near the left SMJ I think the smoke fuesd the wire....I really have no idea but the problem is fixed for now. So I will look into it more in the summer if I get any more problems.

Post by **Infinitiguy19** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:31 pm

I have not fixed the blowing fuse issue yet because of the cold. But really the fear of doing more damage than good because of the cold making everything brittle.

But like I said the problem seems to be past the two circuit breakers, So that being the case I think it would help to know at what amperage do the circuit breakers break the circuit?

Whats weird is sometimes the fuse blows as soon as its put in the socket and sometimes its take a while to blow, meaning a loose wire problem?

I must say I have a better understanding of "How electricity works" after studying the service manual for at least a month, in order to make sure that the J30 alarm will interface correctly with a Q45 (90-93).

And like I said I doubt it could be anyone module or part that cause the fuse to blow, But rather when the loose wire comes in contact with metal the fuse blows. And I base that on the fact that after I plugged in the power window and sun roof circuit breaker a couple of minute later when the car was not in motion or shaken the fuse blew. Well I had a circuit breaker there (It didn't blow but rather the wires melted). But in the midst of that I saw some smoke coming from the SMJ (M12) but I am not sure as I was working as fast as possible to unplug that. After I unplugged the sun roof/power window circuit breaker though the wires were still melting. Now copper melts at 1200* F I think so it got that hot real fast.

Post by **rioredstang** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:09 am

If it smoked near SMJ then carefully open the harness and see what wires smoked. I don't think the wire its self burnt, only the insulation on the wire. What are the wire colors that got hot. Is the SMJ a bulkhead connector? I work on domestic cars most of the time. If its a bulkhead then unscrew it and check for bad terminals.

Post by **Infinitiguy19** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:32 pm

Yeah I tried looking at the wire that is supposed to connect the power windows, sunroof, door locks, seats and Auto Driver Postioner. The wire its self is white in color and it looked fine. I also looked for any other wires that could be burnt and I saw none.

But the SMJ is a bulk head connector that connects the engine harness with the interior harness, There are 3 SMJ's in the Q45.

Post by **Infinitiguy19** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:22 am

Okay I would like to thank NICO for helping with every problem I have had with the Q. I know its near impossible to solve a electrical problem such as this over the on internet or even the phone.

I did find it interesting when ONLY the circuit breaker for the power door locks, seat and ADP was plugged in the 25AMP fuse would not blow. But when the circuit breaker for the power windows was plugged in the fuse immediately blew. when only the circuit breaker for the ADP, power seat and locks was plugged in I hit some pot holes, took corners hard... and it would not blow.

And I took some AMP readings at 40*F today with ONLY the power window and sunroof circuit breaker plugged in and noticed that it was pulling 1.40 Milli AMPs. Now it shouldn't be pulling any power according to the service manual when the is out of the ignition and the windows are not switched on.

To be fair the car had electrical problems before I bought it because the previous owner said the radio would work sporadically. That turned out to be a loose fuse problem.

I am thinking about replacing the dashboard harness and fixing this problem once and for all.

Post by **goody90q45** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:29 pm

Paul Wall wrote:......I did find it interesting when ONLY the circuit breaker for the power door locks, seat and ADP was plugged in the 25AMP fuse would not blow. But when the circuit breaker for the power windows was plugged in the fuse immediately blew. when only the circuit breaker for the ADP, power seat and locks was plugged in I hit some pot holes, took corners hard... and it would not blow.......

It sounds like you've isolated the problem to the power window circuit. Have you replaced the power window amplifier in the DF door? It may be time to take off each of the door panels and unplug one power window connector at a time.

Post by **Infinitiguy19** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:42 pm

I replaced the power window/sunroof relay with a known good one. As well as the power window AMP with what I think is a good one from a 1991 Q45 that I parted out. But sadly the 2.xx AMPs with ONLY the power window circuit plugged in still remained.

Post by **goody90q45** » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:39 am

You've got it isolated to the power window circuit so now it's time to isolate it to a door. Pull each panel off, unplug all the connectors, and see if the current draw doesn't drop. Do the same to each of the 4 doors.

Just a thought- Were you careful not to pinch the window switch wiring tightening the door handle upper screw last time the door panel was off? i.e. when the black '90 window controls were installed? It's easy to get the wiring under the bracket rather than off to the side while the screw is being tightened on both front doors. Unplug the window switches and put the 93 door switches back in and see what happens.
Modified by goody90q45 at 5:46 AM 2/21/2010

Post by **Infinitiguy19** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:07 am

Well Mike I took apart all the doors and at first I though you were right because the two right windows would not move. It turns out that I forgot to plug the connectors back in so that not the problem.

So I am still looking at the SMJ being the issue. Unfortunately I have never removed one and the service manual for the 1990-1996 Q45 doesn't go into detail on how to do so either.

Again thanks for all your help Mike and NICO!

Post by **Infinitiguy19** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:53 am

What I find interesting is that when ONLY one circuit breaker is plugged in the fuse will not blow. And it doesn't matter how bad I drive (over pot holes, taking turns fast...).

So both circuit breakers plugged in the fuse blows.

One circuit breaker the fuse will not blow.

Post by **Infinitiguy19** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:02 pm

Well it turns out Lino and Mike were right so Mike and Lino you'll be getting a Q45 goodie basket (No pun inteded ).

The problem was in the door sub harness. My guess is when the fool (Thats me) wired up the tweeter he must of nicked a wire.

So my next and hopefully last question is how do I get to the door harness connectors? I am talking about where the door harness connects to the main harness.

I am positive the problem is there because the fuse blew the moment I wiggled it. I just hope that its isolated to that one harness and not the other door harness.

But the silver lining is that I have found out more about electronics because of this one incident than I did at school. Didn't pay much attention in 6th grade.

Post by **goody90q45** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:50 pm

It must have finally warmed above freezing in MA because you're out fiddling with the Q again.

Congrats on finally finding the problem. You narrowed the short down to one of the doors a long time ago but never went beyond that to disconnect individual harnesses in the door.

Take a look at the "Location of Electrical Harnesses" near the rear of the EL section of the FSM. It's right after the "Location of Electrical Units" pages. You should be able to find the connectors from the drawings.

And slap yourself hard on the back of your head for Lino and I.

Post by **Infinitiguy19** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:04 pm

Yeah awesome weather were having in the 50's no joke.

But I was kind of wonder if anyone ever replaced a door on a G50 Q45, How hard was it to get to the door sub harness connectors?

And Mike i figured even if I did disconnect the connectors for the seat controls, window and power door locks that would yield nothing. Since the problem is further down from there.

The service manual is useless when it comes to finding the EXACT location of the connector.

I need to invest in a good fiberscope.

Post by **goody90q45** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:19 pm

Page EL-243 of the 94 FSM shows just one connector tying into the main harness. Remove the kick panel and the lower door sill and peel back the carpet. Wherever it passes through the door there should be a connector just opposite it, above the TCU on DS and above the ECU on PS.

Post by **Infinitiguy19** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:54 pm

I made a post yesterday saying i fixed the problem. I found some ATF in the door sub harness and its connectors on the interior of the car, I sprayed very light but still was too much apparently. Anyways I cleaned the connector with electrical parts cleaner and plugged it all back together....But that didn't fix the problems so there goes a fuse.

I also unplugged the door sub harness from the main harness (3 connectors) and that also still caused the fuse to blow. '

I am at a loss of what it could be so once the rain dissipates and it heats up some more I will go at it again. it got close to 70*F all last week and this week its going to be 40*F with rain....New England.

But the key here is that when ONE circuit breaker is plugged in and it doesn't matter which one it is the circuit works. But despite the smoke from the problem area and the circuit breaker in place of the fuse (Both were 25 AMPs and 16 AWG connected to the breaker) everything works fine.

I also used a circuit breaker as suggested by a member previously and that only caused the wire connected to the breaker to melt and even turn the copper GREEN.

Needless to say I am extremely angry because I have thrown every idea I have had to fix the problem and it still keeps killing fuses.

Things that are not the problem:

Drivers door sub harness and everything connected to it.

Is there a tool or some type of tip that would make it easier to find the problem?

If there is not and its only a Multimeter and I then I will resort to doing what I should have as Mike said and disconnect EVERYTHING and reconnect everything till the fuse blows. I just thought there was an easier way around it. I am sorry this has taken so long and quite frankly I am embarrassed but I did learn a lot along the way which is the only silver lining in this.
Modified by Paul Wall at 10:06 PM 3/20/2010

Post by **Q451990** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:12 pm

Trace everything from that wire that smoked and turned green. Your problem, by definition, is that wire or something it feeds.

Heath

Post by **Infinitiguy19** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:21 pm

Actually the wire that turned green is the wires attached to the circuit breaker in place of the regular 25 AMP fusible link. The circuit breaker never tripped but the wires melted and messed up some relays and fuse box cover.

The smoke was also coming from the area of the three connectors for the door sub harness and the main harness connectors that lead to it. But I could not find any smoked wires or anything worse. Like I said I am at a loss because the smoke was only coming from that area but I never had time to look elsewhere because of the smoke and fear of losing the Q.

My guess about the smoke would be that the ATF was burning away causing smoke from that area? Because like I said before I put a little ATF on the door hinges but that seeped down to the door harness connectors.

Many must be asking themselves why I don't take the car to someone who specializes in this stuff, Well:

Local shop wants $80/Hr to read and study the service manual THEN diagnose the problems.

One shop drilled through the gas tank and I needed a replacement tank on the 1991 Q45 I had.

One shop tried to fix a family members 4X4 but gave up and left the front axle from the transfer case to the fron differntial off the vehicle.

One shop charged another family member $75 to put some electrical tape on the ABS sensor instead of replacing it.

One shope welded a fender only to come undone a year later.

One shop charged a family member $600 (14 Hours) to replace the clutch on his truck the book calls for 5 hours.

One shop was told to do an oil change on my 1991 Q45 and used synthetic instead of dyno. I told them to stop pouring it in because I never paid for it and he ended up mixing the dyno and syntheic oil together, instead of draining it out.

The local dealer has no real senior Infiniti Tech.

Many times the oil change places had a hard time with the under sheild on my 1991 and 1993 Q45.

I am sure I am missing some, but I have made it a point to do all the work myself because of the top notch work listed above.

I still can't believe all this time I was so close to the problem. I even saw smoke coming from there but though it was the door sub harness. Live and learn.

Thank You Mike, Heath, Lino, Qship96, Yoda and Victor
Modified by Paul Wall at 6:48 PM 4/8/2010

Post by **Infinitiguy19** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:43 pm

Well the problem is truly fixed!

I would be more happy if I fixed and found the problem myself.

What hurts the most is that the problem was in the main harness along the drivers side, But the wires had to be soldered, spliced together and head shrinked together.

So now I can drive that car but I can no longer claim its all OEM and untouched. With all my modifications electrical, mechanical.....I could remove them at a moments notice. But now I have a hole in the main harness.

But all in all I spent months trying to figure out this problem. And it turned out to be that the dead pedal was sharp enough to cut into the main harness. So no matter what i disconnected I may have never found the problem.

And I also spent $240 at the shop, 5 fuses, damaged some relays and the fuse box in the engine bay because I did what someone on NICO said. But thats all little stuff compared to not having a truly all original Q45 anymore.

The main harness is on my to do list and sooner or later I will replace it.

Post by **goody90q45** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:21 pm

I've got to ask before Qship does......How did the harness get cut by the footrest? Was it not put in place properly after a stereo/speaker install or some other upgrade? Was the footrest loose? Is this the equivalent of the Toyota brake problem that all of us Q owners should check immediately? Will there be a retrofit kit to fix the problem?

It's good to see you got it fixed, finally. Sometimes you have to swallow your pride, empty the bank account and take the Q (or tow the Q) to the shop.

What's the next repair on your list that's not upgrade or mod?

Modified by goody90q45 at 4:27 PM 4/8/2010
Modified by goody90q45 at 4:28 PM 4/8/2010

Post by **Infinitiguy19** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:07 pm

I have no idea how it happened but I did notice that the dead pedal had some broken studs. I even made a topic about it but I noticed that about a year ago. In fact it was on my to-do list to replace the studs LOL. I assume the previous owner (One of the two) did something to it....

Infiniti doesn't have the problems the new poorly made Toyota's have. I am sure this a isolated insentient.

I also have no problem dishing out the money as long its a correct and permanent fix. But the pride part will take some time because I am very stubborn.

I need to remove the swirls with Meguiars NXT and then put some Collinite 476S to make sure the swirls stay gone for 6+ months.

I also need to replace the rear seat bottom holder, I sat on it accidentally and it broke ($15 Kelly Infiniti).

I need to put the interior back to what it was along with the trunk.

Fix the rust spot on the rocker panel.

Flush the transmission fluid and install the Magnefine filter

Replace the passenger side caliper

And more I wish I could remember.

Post by **Q451990** » Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:42 am

Glad to hear you finally got this one resolved!

Heath

Post by **Infinitiguy19** » Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:14 pm

Thanks Heath!

I took some pictures...: The dead pedal with a piece of rubber around it to protect the harness. Nissan Should have done a better job! http://picasaweb.google.com/lh...tlink

Green thing is the Timer Control Unit (b**** of a location!), Big round black thing is....The main harness, And the power window and rear defroster relays.: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh...tlink

Here is a bigger picture of the main harness and dead pedal: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh...tlink

Drivers door sub-harness connectors: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh...tlink

New ground the Tech used and I don't know why: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh...tlink

And what do you guys think of a black trunk and fuel door opener: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh...tlink

I still can't believe I spent MONTHS and sometimes over nighters trying to find this problem when all along it was in the area I was looking at.

Well s*** happens...

Blown 25 AMP fuse for power windows

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