Adios, Obamacare

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AZhitman
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All I can say is that if I look back at my premiums from 17 years ago (when I started here) and compare them to today, they're roughly double. That's a 100% increase in 17 years.

I find it hard to believe that a 1300% increase is the logical progression of that trend.

But apparently, that's ok with those who think it's the "gubmint's job" to take care of citizens.

Even if we assume that it is, and I now have a vested interest in the health and welfare of a bunch of other people, then it stands to reason that I should have a say in how they take care of themselves. And THAT is a slippery slope that has no place in America.


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telcoman
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AZhitman wrote:All I can say is that if I look back at my premiums from 17 years ago (when I started here) and compare them to today, they're roughly double. That's a 100% increase in 17 years.
How does that compare with your property taxes, automobile insurance, college tuition, food bills, etc

Everything has gone up.
Who ends up paying for those injured in the two unpaid for wars?

Your increased medical costs are chump change compared to the trillions being pissed away in the middle east in a war ( now a huge middle east clusterfvuck) that was started by a previous administration looking for WMD

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AZhitman
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You're not real bright.

Of course everything has gone up. I was pointing out that a 100% increase over 17 years doesn't surprise me. A 1300% increase overnight is a crock of crap.

Your delusions about geopolitical affairs that you can't comprehend don't have a thing to do with the un-American assclownery that is Obamacare.

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AZhitman wrote:All I can say is that if I look back at my premiums from 17 years ago (when I started here) and compare them to today, they're roughly double. That's a 100% increase in 17 years.

I find it hard to believe that a 1300% increase is the logical progression of that trend.

But apparently, that's ok with those who think it's the "gubmint's job" to take care of citizens.

Even if we assume that it is, and I now have a vested interest in the health and welfare of a bunch of other people, then it stands to reason that I should have a say in how they take care of themselves. And THAT is a slippery slope that has no place in America.
LOL, it certainly is a slippery slope, and it's a shame politicians feel they can do that with other issues. I agree healthcare insurance premiums have gone up drastically over the last 17 yrs, but that's because health care costs have increased insanely, and insurance companies are simply passing along the costs, especially over the last 5 yrs.. There are many reasons (that aren't Obamacare) to explain those huge cost increases. And you know many of them have little to do with politics. ACA is obviously not a cure-all, but doing nothing has proven to be just as bad if not worse.

I suggest you run for office. I'd vote for you. :dblthumb:

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Bubba1 wrote:
I suggest you run for office. I'd vote for you. :dblthumb:
I wouldn't go quite that far! :poke:

You did make some valid points. :yesnod

Telcoman

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AZhitman
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Bubba1 wrote:ACA is obviously not a cure-all, but doing nothing has proven to be just as bad if not worse.
Not for me and my family. Doing nothing means I stay where I'm at and avoid the 1300% increase in premiums. That's not inflation - that's punishment for non-conformity.
Bubba1 wrote:I suggest you run for office. I'd vote for you. :dblthumb:
Unfortunately, the common-sense, fiscal conservatism and socially-liberal policies I support don't seem to go over well with either of the bands of stooges who keep voting a straight ticket.

I'm awfully flattered, and I'd definitely put you in charge of the NHTSA. :)

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Ace2cool wrote:You really believe the hospitals will stop charging what they do? Have food prices gonna back down now that gas is half of what it was when they hiked prices? Didn't think so.
With proper regulation and oversight YES!
Ace2cool wrote:And I take issue with the burden falling on my generation to take care of people in your generation that don't care about us in the first place.
That is exactly how social security works.
Is it perfect, no but it works and only needs some simple fixes so it will pay full benefits to the next generation.
Ace2cool wrote:........ It's the government forcing me to buy a service. Literally threatening me and my wellbeing if I don't comply.

You drive, you must have a drivers license. You work, you must have a social security card. Want to use your local library, you must have a library card and provide proof of residence. Want to travel, you need a government issued passport.

Stop whining!

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telcoman wrote:With proper regulation and oversight YES!
More big government. :tisk:
telcoman wrote:You drive, you must have a drivers license. You work, you must have a social security card. Want to use your local library, you must have a library card and provide proof of residence. Want to travel, you need a government issued passport.
Hmmm. I don't see a single thing in there that costs money. I also don't see anything in there that represents the government mandating you buy something from a private company.

So, Howie - You're ok with me making a HUGE profit on my holdings in healthcare? Or does that make me an "evil fat cat one-percenter?"

Let me know how much I can make before you and the rest of your hand-wringing liberal gasbag friends start calling me nasty names. :)
telcoman wrote:...trillions being pissed away in the middle east in a war ( now a huge middle east clusterfvuck) that was started by a previous administration looking for WMD...
telcoman wrote:Stop whining!
Yes, please do. :yesnod

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Keep holding your breath!

You are soooo wrong in creating this thread.

The ACA is never going away anytime soon unless congress comes up with a better idea and plan.

Thus far they are a do nothing congress and on vacation again for another two weeks

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/1 ... er-n330791

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show ... lying-eyes


Telcoman

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The fact that it's "here to stay" doesn't mean it's a good plan.

I'll take that last post as a concession of failure.

I agree 100% that Congress is, for the most part, a worthless bunch of criminals, idiots, shady POSs, and clueless miscreants.

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AZhitman wrote:The fact that it's "here to stay" doesn't mean it's a good plan.
Correct but instead of wasting taxpayer money attempting to repeal it over 50 times, why not attempt to fix what is wrong with it?
AZhitman wrote:I agree 100% that Congress is, for the most part, a worthless bunch of criminals, idiots, shady POSs, and clueless miscreants.
Agreed!
AZhitman wrote:I'll take that last post as a concession of failure.
No!
Attempts have been made for over 25 years to improve our healthcare in the United States.
Hillary has lots of experience in this and will finally get the job done after the next presidential election. Using hospital emergency rooms by the uninsured is a costly waste of money and resources. Every person living in the United States needs to have health insurance and the ACA was created to accomplish this. It doesn't matter whether someone is here legally, illegally, student visa, etc. everyone must have health insurance that cannot be denied.
I'm still waiting for the GOP to come up with their solution.

In another 25 years President Obama will be a well regarded president who got the job done.

The real concession of failure is the republican party.

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telcoman wrote:why not attempt to fix what is wrong with it?
Why hasn't the left made any attempts to fix it? Why so partisan?

As a Libertarian, you know I'm going to automatically assume the worst from anyone who toes the party line like it's some sort of Gospel.

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AZhitman wrote:
telcoman wrote:why not attempt to fix what is wrong with it?
Why hasn't the left made any attempts to fix it? Why so partisan?
That's a very good question, and applies to both sides of the aisle. Which is one of the many reasons I think we badly need term limits. It seems idiotic to keep voting for the same people who we've watched behave like children and expect them to suddenly act maturely and work together.

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It's easy to bash the Right for trying to overturn a bad law (nothing's permanent, that's flawed thinking), but the ACA has critics on the left as well. Where's the effort?

No, they're all out for themselves, and that's proof that it's simply not good for America.

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AZhitman wrote:It's easy to bash the Right for trying to overturn a bad law (nothing's permanent, that's flawed thinking), but the ACA has critics on the left as well. Where's the effort?

No, they're all out for themselves, and that's proof that it's simply not good for America.
Why keep trying to overturn it instead of compromise to fix it?

When will you change the title of this thread to

Hola Obamacare? :poke:

Telcoman

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Look up 'compromise' in the dictionary.

NO ONE is trying. That's been my whole freaking point.

While you and the rest of the lefty wingnuts are fapping off about WMDs and the ooga-booga GOP, no one is putting forth the effort to cover this smelly turd.

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telcoman wrote:
When will you change the title of this thread to

Hola Obamacare? :poke:

Telcoman
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AZhitman wrote:But apparently, that's ok with those who think it's the "gubmint's job" to take care of citizens.

Even if we assume that it is, and I now have a vested interest in the health and welfare of a bunch of other people, then it stands to reason that I should have a say in how they take care of themselves. And THAT is a slippery slope that has no place in America.
The False Hope of a Limited Government, Built on Tax Breaks

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/01/busin ... f=business

“Consider spending on health care, which by some accounts wastes as much as 5 percent of the nation’s G.D.P., or about $800 billion. The government spends more on health, per person, than every O.E.C.D. nation except Luxembourg and Norway. Yet too much of that enriches doctors and other health care providers while American rates of infant mortality and premature death are off the charts compared with other wealthy nations.”

“As Americans file their tax returns and Congress debates the federal budget, Republicans are once again appealing to the public by proposing to sharply cut the scale of domestic spending, which would mostly fall on the poor.
But their plans fail to recognize that Americans actually prefer a strong safety net. In fact, counting private expenditures along with public ones, the United States spends more on social insurance than every O.E.C.D. country but France.
In light of these preferences, perhaps it is time to stop focusing so much on the visible part of government. Instead, Washington might be better occupied culling the many goodies hidden in the tax code that serve little or no social purpose other than coddling well-connected constituencies. Those billions could then be used to provide regular American families the social insurance they really need.”

Perhaps you should start getting your information from legitimate sources?

Telcoman

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Hola Obamacare

It's about time!

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/26/us/su ... -news&_r=0

Telcoman

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Scalia on Obamacare: 'We Should Start Calling This Law SCOTUScare'
The justice wrote in his dissenting opinion Thursday that the Supreme Court had made a "defense of the indefensible."

The decision, Scalia wrote, "rewrites the law." "We should start calling this law SCOTUScare," he wrote.

He continued: "Rather than rewriting the law under the pretense of interpreting it, the Court should have left it to Congress to decide what to do about the Act's limitation of tax credits to state exchanges," Scalia wrote.

The ruling rejects a lawsuit that aimed to gut federal health-care subsidies for people in 34 states. If the Court had ruled the other way, more than 6 million people would have been at risk of losing their coverage.

Scalia, who read his dissent from the bench, was joined by Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito in his dissent. Scalia took issue with the majority's interpretation of the language within the Affordable Care Act. The law states that in order for people to qualify for health care subsidies, they need to be "enrolled in through an exchange established by the state." The majority upheld that by "state," the law referred to individual state exchanges or exchanges set up by the federal government. Otherwise, the majority opinion stated, state exchanges would drown in a "death spiral."

Roberts wrote that "it is implausible that Congress meant the Act to operate in this manner."

Scalia heavily criticized this reading, saying that the majority has erroneously interpreted the word "state" to also mean "federal government."

"The Secretary of Health and Human Services is not a state," he wrote. "Words no longer have meaning if an exchange that is not established by a state is 'established by the state.'"

Scalia wrote that the justices who authored the majority displayed "no semblance of shame" in their opinion. His dissent is littered with jabs at his fellow justices. "Today's interpretation is not merely unnatural; it is unheard of," Scalia writes. He describes another aspect of the majority's analysis to be "pure applesauce."

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Experts see big price hikes for Obamacare
Premiums could rise more sharply in 2016.

The cost of Obamacare could rise for millions of Americans next year, with one insurer proposing a 50 percent hike in premiums, fueling the controversy about just how “affordable” the Affordable Care Act really is.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/h ... z3e5Z22QI1

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AZhitman wrote:..... Whine at them for picking on your Doofus In Chief.

You mean the one who taught constitutional law and had his major accomplishment upheld twice now by the US Supreme Court and was reelected in 2012.

You're too funny and have been so wrong now for so many years. :poke:

Telcoman

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Rogue One wrote:
Scalia on Obamacare: 'We Should Start Calling This Law SCOTUScare'
The justice wrote in his dissenting opinion Thursday that the Supreme Court had made a "defense of the indefensible."

The decision, Scalia wrote, "rewrites the law." "We should start calling this law SCOTUScare," he wrote.

He continued: "Rather than rewriting the law under the pretense of interpreting it, the Court should have left it to Congress to decide what to do about the Act's limitation of tax credits to state exchanges," Scalia wrote.

The ruling rejects a lawsuit that aimed to gut federal health-care subsidies for people in 34 states. If the Court had ruled the other way, more than 6 million people would have been at risk of losing their coverage.

Scalia, who read his dissent from the bench, was joined by Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito in his dissent. Scalia took issue with the majority's interpretation of the language within the Affordable Care Act. The law states that in order for people to qualify for health care subsidies, they need to be "enrolled in through an exchange established by the state." The majority upheld that by "state," the law referred to individual state exchanges or exchanges set up by the federal government. Otherwise, the majority opinion stated, state exchanges would drown in a "death spiral."

Roberts wrote that "it is implausible that Congress meant the Act to operate in this manner."

Scalia heavily criticized this reading, saying that the majority has erroneously interpreted the word "state" to also mean "federal government."

"The Secretary of Health and Human Services is not a state," he wrote. "Words no longer have meaning if an exchange that is not established by a state is 'established by the state.'"

Scalia wrote that the justices who authored the majority displayed "no semblance of shame" in their opinion. His dissent is littered with jabs at his fellow justices. "Today's interpretation is not merely unnatural; it is unheard of," Scalia writes. He describes another aspect of the majority's analysis to be "pure applesauce."
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... re-opinion

Chief Justice Roberts appointed by a republican wrote

"In a democracy, the power to make the law rests with those chosen by the people. Our role is more confined —'to say what the law is.' ... That is easier in some cases than in others. But in every case we must respect the role of the Legislature, and take care not to undo what it has done. A fair reading of legislation demands a fair understanding of the legislative plan. Congress passed the Affordable Care Act to improve health insurance markets, not to destroy them. If at all possible, we must interpret the Act in a way that is consistent with the former, and avoids the latter."

The ACA is not going away anytime soon so you better make the most of it and get used to it.

Those running for President in 2016 who still want to repeal the ACA with no other detailed plans are making things easier for Hillary and perhaps even Bernie Sanders.

Telcoman

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Hey Republicans!
Are you there?
Wake up!

Where is your plan?

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show ... _fb_maddow

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telcoman wrote:your plan?
To try to to get rid of Rachel "Mad Dog" Maddow. :rolleyes:

Z

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Sorry!

I know the truth is tough for you but I just had to point it out to you. :poke:

Telcoman

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telcoman wrote:Sorry!

I know the truth is tough for you but I just had to point it out to you. :poke:
I can only pity you anymore. It is just too bad you insist on wearing your free government-issue blinders ... sad.

Z

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szh wrote:
telcoman wrote:Sorry!

I know the truth is tough for you but I just had to point it out to you. :poke:
I can only pity you anymore. It is just too bad you insist on wearing your free government-issue blinders ... sad.

Z
Some good news for the ACA supporters

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show ... _fb_maddow

Not such good news for the naysayers.

Perhaps the next POTUS will deliver single payer healthcare for all Americans

Telcoman

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telcoman wrote:
AZhitman wrote:..... Whine at them for picking on your Doofus In Chief.

You mean the one who taught constitutional law and had his major accomplishment upheld twice now by the US Supreme Court and was reelected in 2012.

You're too funny and have been so wrong now for so many years. :poke:

Telcoman
And yet, you deny Ted Cruz's intelligence? He is far more of the legal expert and better lawyer than President Obama ever was or will be.

Z


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