Acura announcement- sign of the times or a pronouncement?

[dmuramoto]

Acura has announced it is scrapping most of the product plans they have for the near term. No V-8 powered RWD luxo sedans or NSX replacements; heck, not even a swoopy new RSX to show off. Apparently, their market research shows the customer base for their products have fallen off the planet. Parent company Honda is looking to become a "greener" car company and that means Acura will have only a few new cars (the ZDX and a Accord-based station wagon) for dealers in North America.

Now this is a Big Deal because of the millions of dollars, euros or yen that have already been committed and get flushed down the proverbial drain when a company does such a big about face. Not to mention, the Acura dealers who committed Big Bucks of their own to rebuilding their dealerships into Taj Mahals to rival those of BMW, Mercedes, etc.

Now some might say that Honda already lost millions when it stopped racing F1 last year and sold the team to Ross Brawn for $1. THAT turned out well (for Brawn and Jensen Button, anyway), but I wonder if this is striking fear (or at least a pause) in Stuttgart, Ingolstadt or Munich? And how about Infiniti? Sure, we know the M hybrid is on the way, but will the next generation of Infinitis be greener, slower and less posh?

[audtatious]

We hope Nissan/Infiniti will do both. Honda seems to now be going the path of Toyota; bland and bland. That can only mean good things for a Japanese company that still produces stylish performance-oriented cars, along with "green initiative" vehicles.

[dmuramoto]

Since performance has been a core value for Infiniti/Nissan, I hope future models will stay true to it. But there is a risk that entire market segments will become, as you say, "bland". When that happens, overall performance may be secondary to better economy or reduced emissions.

[SteveTheTech]

After looking at the trend Acura has taken over the last decade and a half the most recent offerings show their design trend is willing to take drastic aesthetic risk to overshadow their uncreative features and outdated driveline offerings. Vtec is no longer cutting edge, or even that efficient. Infiniti has also taken some decent risks but they have consistently been on par if not ahead of the German set consumer demand curve.

Lexus on the other hand has retained their early popularity and devotees of that listless driving experience only matched by large body American cars. The Japanese themselves seem to love a few things in their cars that differ from the common American consumer. The Japanese love classic British sedans soft touch finishes and speed. Early examples of this are the old J30 with its round posterior and power supplied from a Z32. Through Nissans shaky years they were conservative and were in a similar boat the Acura now pilots the decisions they face now will determine their fate. Maybe they will opt to bring over the full line via one brand as the Honda-Acura line has always been very blurry and the Honda name has always been thought of fondly.

As mentioned by Dave there is already an intact retail and support infrastructure stateside that would be devastated by a phasing out of the brand. If they disband Acura and put Americans out of work it will take some serious PR work to overcome the bad press from that. No hybrid or alternate fuel technology would over come that. However my personal perception would be swayed if they gave me an Asimo.

Both Nissan, Toyota may not have separated the luxury divisions mechanically enough for some people. However the higher quality of service offered to a new Infiniti or Lexus owner rivals and exceeds the competition, and sets them a step ahead of the European competition.

The market should determine the winners and losers but in America we do things just a wee bit differently.

[audtatious]

Top-tier Japanese imports (Infiniti, Lexus, Acura) have been ahead of the curve from a maintenance perspective as well. BMW/MB and other EU-brands are known to rape you after the warranty period. Granted, their warranty is longer than those from the rising sun.

Wonder how the new Hyundai US-built models will fare.....

[MinisterofDOOM]

Acura has amused me with their stubbornness and self-contradiction since shortly after the turn of the century when they decided they were a real premium luxury brand like BMW and Infiniti. 10 years later, they still don't make ONE SINGLE CAR that actually competes with BMW or Infiniti. No wonder they're abandoning everything but econocars...it's all they actually know how to make. Or, perhaps, all they are willing to make. I don't see the benefit in pretending to be something and then selling cars that don't agree with the facade. Either you're a luxury brand, or you aren't. Quit screwing around. Rebadged Accords will not put you on a level playing field with BMW. Real cars (with V8s and RWD) will.

I just don't get it. They're so determined to be taken seriously, and yet they're also absolutely determined to restrict their lineup to V6 front-drivers. I honestly have to wonder if they even know what they want.

Yet another Japanese brand to follow the disappointing trend: in the early-mid 90s Acura was awesome. Acura of today is just another bland, passionless, same-as-the-rest marketing ploy. They need their marketing to convince you they're exciting because their cars no longer do that job themselves.

What happened to the company that built the Vigor?

[dmuramoto]

MinisterofDOOM makes a good point, Acura seemed to be making some real headway to being a Tier One product back in the 80's. But seemed to lose their way as the century wound down. Now, they're stuck with a rapidly aging lineup and having to tout their safety testing record as their best feature. Not a good sign when their marketing team has to scrape that far...

With Toyota and Lexus taking so much bad press lately, this looks like a clear opportunity for Infiniti to make some headway. They've got the product, a lineup to envy and pricing advantage over other luxury makes. It'll be interesting to see how this turbulent time turns out for sales and market share for the remainder of the year.

[audtatious]

Yep, MOD makes some valid points about Acura. Nissan should really pounce on the Toyota problems by doing a commercial showing that their cars actually stop when you want them to

[SteveTheTech]

Although many sedans are based on a rwd V8 creme de la creme as deemed by the established automotive media as the true sedan. While this is true as of now let us remember the days when the Legend (not the vigor ) was one of the cars that Acura was able to build it's name off whereas the Integra was an extension of the renowned Civic line that an entire generation has used to get to work. Sorry that was a long way to say I think the legend was the car they built their name off rather than the obscure 5 cylinder. I am a staunch proponent of rwd based vehicles and the concept of "No Replacement for Displacement" but for those of use who have driven a new G37 sedan (2009 runs ~13.5 sec 1/4mi) has proven that tuning and technology trump displacement when numbers matter. Given the naturally aspirated V6s a second chance is one thins but the fwd layout and offset weight distribution will detract from the driving experience any of us would be looking for.

That is not to say that many good car guys have been forced to drive a car we hated due to extenuating circumstances and the realization that married men need to pick our battles wisely.

In the era we are in now with naturally aspirated 6 cylinders that average 20+ mpgs and exceed 300 horsepower and then some. With increased 0-60 times and throttle response going putting the check mark in the place of the 6 cylinder engine range or even the turbo charged 4 cylinders, but their power bands not linear enough for the comparison I would like to make here. The fact of the matter is that the Japanese have taken a shot at the concept of environmentally friendly performance based sedans that can take on the sedans that set the bar as we know it.

The thing that gets to me is that the game has changed since the days of yore and there is now indeed a replacement for displacement.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Sorry that was a long way to say I think the legend was the car they built their name off rather than the obscure 5 cylinder.

Kind of. Although I wasn't trying to indicate that the Vigor helped build Acura...simply that it's my favorite Acura, or rather embodies what I view as Acura's best effort as far as luxury sport sedans go. BUT the Vigor became the TL, which I would argue has been much more important to Acura than the RL (which succeeded the Legend).

The reason I mentioned the Vigor, though, is that it is proof (like the J30 Maxima) that the V6, front-drive luxury sport sedan CAN work. It just has to be done right and not weight 4000 effing pounds. The Vigor made no pretenses about being a top-tier luxury car. It knew it was a midsize family car. But it was a nicer one, and it mixed performance and luxury (and economy) very well. It also didn't MSRP in the $40k range like it's modern successor does. It knew what it was and filled the role well, which is a stark contrast to Acura's current lineup of directionless pseudoluxury Inspire/Accord adaptations.

As for V6s, fuel economy, and horsepower...I'll disagree as usual. I've yet to see a real world example of a V6 that matches V8 horsepower while getting superior fuel economy. You can make V8 hp with a V6, sure. But you WON'T get 20s-mpg. Ask G owners. Or SHO owners. They get teens mixed, just like my Q. But my Q has a superior torque curve, is vastly smoother and sounds better. If you want to trade torque and smoothness for peak HP in base models, I don't object. But the need for a real-world-beneficial V8 in big cars has gone nowhere. I'll take my 280hp 3.9 liter over the "330hp" VQ because I make more torque more of the time. And torque is what really matters. Unless you spend 90% of your time at the top 1/3 of your tach (which, by the way, kills any fuel economy gains) your VQ (nebulous "you" here for point-making purposes) is not making more power than me. My LS shifts in to 5th gear by 35mph and I spend most of my city driving time below 2000rpm. The VQ cannot make that claim. But it also can't drive around at 700rpm like I can because it doesn't make squat for torque that low.

It's all about balance and what the car really needs. V8s actually make MORE fuel economy sense in my eyes, for these reasons. The ability to keep revs lower more often returns better real world fuel economy. The V6's necessity to get peaky to cross the 300hp threshold means you can't get power AND economy together like you can with a V8. You have to pick one. I average 22mpg combined in my LS. That's way better than people with G35s making the same power get. And my 75mph highway milage is 29. The G can never equal that, because it's spinning at much higher rpms at cruise.

The V6 might have been a fuel economy solution in the past, when midsize sedans weighed 3000lb at most. But they've gained 1000lb in the last 10-15 years and the V6 has not evolved enough to keep up. If you want economy in the real world out of a car that weighs 4000+ lb (like the RL or the SHO) the answer is not more tech on a V6; that pushes the wrong end of the tach. The answer is a V8. Keep revs low and still keep power high. And the ability to make torque down low does not preclude high-rpm performance. Just look at the LS7.

I'm absolutely fine with automakers offering V6s optionally (like the M). But sticking with V6s is NOT more green. Ecoboost has proven that.