okay...it all started today when i went to move the Pathfinder. It fired up and I smelled fumes coming from under the hood, I pop the hood and see gas dripping from the rubber hose that connects the fuel rails, on the VG33E. I replaced that this morning and now when i go to start it up, it crrraaaaaaaaannnkkks to the point where i want to pump the gas pedal, but instead I stop turning the key and wait a sec...then I turn it and it starts.
Could it be fuel pump?
I have replaced the fuel filter about 4k miles ago.
Thanks.
98 Pathfinder starting weird
Re: 98 Pathfinder starting weird
Update: Started right up this morning, made some stops in town and fired up as nothing is wrong. 
Now wondering if it had to adjust for that leaking gas line getting fixed. 
Now wondering if it had to adjust for that leaking gas line getting fixed. -
quaint bucket
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:56 pm
- Car: 97 path
Re: 98 Pathfinder starting weird
Was it the first time you started it after replacing the fuel line? If so, that's not really a big worry..
Re: 98 Pathfinder starting weird
Yeah and now it's doing it again, really long crank...then fire. This time I actually used the gas pedal to give it gas and it fired, give it no gas and it will just crank until it gets it.
-
atraudes
- Posts: 1106
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:46 pm
- Car: 2001.5 Infiniti QX4 4WD
- Location: Sammamish, WA
Re: 98 Pathfinder starting weird
Hard starting is typically a fuel system problem, but it could be any of the components. Any other problems with the vehicle? Hesitation/stumble, rough idle, stalling, especially bad acne... The fuel filter is always the first recommendation here unless you've done it fairly recently (past few months).
Is the check engine light on, and are there any codes being thrown? Having to step on the gas pedal sort of hints at a problem with the IACV (idle air control valve). Usually a code will get thrown if that has a problem though. There's a part in the Engine Control System (EC) of the FSM that you can use to run through some diagnostic procedures for it.
Is the check engine light on, and are there any codes being thrown? Having to step on the gas pedal sort of hints at a problem with the IACV (idle air control valve). Usually a code will get thrown if that has a problem though. There's a part in the Engine Control System (EC) of the FSM that you can use to run through some diagnostic procedures for it.
Re: 98 Pathfinder starting weird
let's go through this... No other problems, idles smooth, actually felt better after replacing the cracked and dripping fuel line, more power. No acne...No check engine light or codes(have a code scanner) I cleaned the IACV last month, took off the intake and removed the valve, inspected and cleaned it up with throttle body cleaner.atraudes wrote:Hard starting is typically a fuel system problem, but it could be any of the components. Any other problems with the vehicle? Hesitation/stumble, rough idle, stalling, especially bad acne... The fuel filter is always the first recommendation here unless you've done it fairly recently (past few months).
Is the check engine light on, and are there any codes being thrown? Having to step on the gas pedal sort of hints at a problem with the IACV (idle air control valve). Usually a code will get thrown if that has a problem though. There's a part in the Engine Control System (EC) of the FSM that you can use to run through some diagnostic procedures for it.
Hmmm...I'm about due for an oil change, so i will go ahead and replace the fuel filter and see if that helps or not.
Re: 98 Pathfinder starting weird
Still doing it but not all the time...it can sit all night and fire up, then i drive it, let it sit for a few minutes and then takes longer than normal to fire. Or last night it sat for 2 hrs while i was in class and then takes longer than normal to fire. I never know when it will do it...hope that helps in diagnosis. I would like to figure it out before it won't start somewhere and leave me stranded.
Re: 98 Pathfinder starting weird
went out this morning and did a code scan...got P0325 Knock Sensor. No CEL on the dash but scanner says its a "Fault" instead of "Pending."
Could this cause my sporadic starting issue because it has to do with ignition timing?
Could this cause my sporadic starting issue because it has to do with ignition timing?
-
atraudes
- Posts: 1106
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:46 pm
- Car: 2001.5 Infiniti QX4 4WD
- Location: Sammamish, WA
Re: 98 Pathfinder starting weird
I could see that happening. The knock sensor listens for engine knock and can adjust the timing accordingly, making it difficult to start. It's a great first place to start.
Re: 98 Pathfinder starting weird
The knock sensor has nothing to do with your problem.
The fuel system should maintain some pressure in it even when shut down.
There is a check valve in the fuel pump to hold this pressure.
If the check valve is not holding, the pressure is lost and the pump has to pressurize the entire system from the pump to the injector when you crank.
Leaks from the injectors will cause a similar loss, and flood the engine too.
You need to install a pressure gauge next to your injector rail and see what the pressure is, and what it does when the engine is off. The pressure should take a good while to drop to zero, say an hour.
If it drops very quickly, run the engine to build the pressure then shut it off.
Quickly clamp the rubber hose to the injector rail.
If the pressure now holds, the leakage was from one or more of the injectors.
If it still drops, its the check valve in the fuel pump.
Of course a fuel pump that is producing low pressure will also cause hard starting but would likely show itself in full throttle/hill diving.
Also, keep in mind that with modern fuel injected cars, moving the accelerator pedal can't add any fuel to your starting equation. You can add some air, but know that in many cars, flooring the pedal will command a "clear flood" response from the ECM, and the injectors will be shut off.
Good luck
The fuel system should maintain some pressure in it even when shut down.
There is a check valve in the fuel pump to hold this pressure.
If the check valve is not holding, the pressure is lost and the pump has to pressurize the entire system from the pump to the injector when you crank.
Leaks from the injectors will cause a similar loss, and flood the engine too.
You need to install a pressure gauge next to your injector rail and see what the pressure is, and what it does when the engine is off. The pressure should take a good while to drop to zero, say an hour.
If it drops very quickly, run the engine to build the pressure then shut it off.
Quickly clamp the rubber hose to the injector rail.
If the pressure now holds, the leakage was from one or more of the injectors.
If it still drops, its the check valve in the fuel pump.
Of course a fuel pump that is producing low pressure will also cause hard starting but would likely show itself in full throttle/hill diving.
Also, keep in mind that with modern fuel injected cars, moving the accelerator pedal can't add any fuel to your starting equation. You can add some air, but know that in many cars, flooring the pedal will command a "clear flood" response from the ECM, and the injectors will be shut off.
Good luck
Re: 98 Pathfinder starting weird
Well at least this will be easier to get to than the knock sensor...lol Then the first step for me is to get a pressure gauge next to the injector rail so i know where to start. Thanks for the info.
But i still need to do the knock sensor relocation to the top of the intake first, so i can definitely know that it's not the sensor.
Edit: I just thought of something...Doesn't the vehicle have to be running for the knock sensor to work? That would eliminate it.
But i still need to do the knock sensor relocation to the top of the intake first, so i can definitely know that it's not the sensor.
Edit: I just thought of something...Doesn't the vehicle have to be running for the knock sensor to work? That would eliminate it.
Re: 98 Pathfinder starting weird
The input from the knock sensor is ignored during cranking.
Worry about it later.
If you don't believe that put a timing light on a car and check the cranking timing with and without the KS disconnected.
Get a cheap pressure gauge something like this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/fuel-injec ... 92699.html
If you are going to work on cars for any time at all you will need one.
Good luck
Worry about it later.
If you don't believe that put a timing light on a car and check the cranking timing with and without the KS disconnected.
Get a cheap pressure gauge something like this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/fuel-injec ... 92699.html
If you are going to work on cars for any time at all you will need one.
Good luck
-
Mark Mellott
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:10 am
- Car: 2002 Nissan Pathfinder SE
Re: 98 Pathfinder starting weird
You mentioned that you cleaned the IACV. On my V6 Pathfinder I had to perform an idle air volume relearn procedure to get it back in sync with the rest of the system after I disconnected and cleaned my IACV. The procedure is as follows.
a) Place the transmission in Park and set the parking brake. Make sure all the electrical accessories are Off and the front wheels are pointing straight ahead.
b) Start the engine, warm it up to operating temperature then turn it Off.
c) Turn the ignition switch On for one second then turn it Off for at least ten seconds.
d) Start the engine and warm it up to operating temperature then turn it Off.
e) Wait at least ten seconds, then start the engine and allow it to idle for thirty seconds.
f) With the engine idling, disconnect the electrical connector from the Throttle Position Sensor and reconnect it within five seconds.
g) Wait thirty seconds, then rev the engine several times and make sure the idle speed returns to 700 to 800 rpm.
All of these steps and the timing for the number of seconds indicated are critical. It's like inputting cheat codes into the car's computer to give it very specific instructions. Please follow these steps and see if the issue goes away.
a) Place the transmission in Park and set the parking brake. Make sure all the electrical accessories are Off and the front wheels are pointing straight ahead.
b) Start the engine, warm it up to operating temperature then turn it Off.
c) Turn the ignition switch On for one second then turn it Off for at least ten seconds.
d) Start the engine and warm it up to operating temperature then turn it Off.
e) Wait at least ten seconds, then start the engine and allow it to idle for thirty seconds.
f) With the engine idling, disconnect the electrical connector from the Throttle Position Sensor and reconnect it within five seconds.
g) Wait thirty seconds, then rev the engine several times and make sure the idle speed returns to 700 to 800 rpm.
All of these steps and the timing for the number of seconds indicated are critical. It's like inputting cheat codes into the car's computer to give it very specific instructions. Please follow these steps and see if the issue goes away.
Re: 98 Pathfinder starting weird
I'm going with the check valve in the fuel pump as the problem, I'm pretty sure it's not leaking injectors. I have no misfires or black smoke or loss of power. I think it is drop of pressure. But out of curiosity how does yours start? Please post...When i got mine about 5k miles ago i would turn the key and it would fire around the 4th revolution, never knew if that is normal. I'm used to my other cars I've owned starting by just hitting the ignition and bam it starts. Now it starts about the 8th revolution...sometimes!
-
Mark Mellott
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:10 am
- Car: 2002 Nissan Pathfinder SE
Re: 98 Pathfinder starting weird
My Pathfinder cranks over in 2 to 3 revs. Aside from the throttle position sensor, there is nothing in my ignition timing that can be adjusted. Components that control the timing either work or they don't. If you are still getting a fault code for the knock sensor I would be very suspicious of this. It is under the intake manifold so testing it is bummer of a job, especially if that is not the problem. However, if you continue to get a fault code on the knock sensor it would best to deal with it. With that said, certainly your fuel pump or fuel pressure regulator can be giving you a hard time. Wish you the best of luck.
Re: 98 Pathfinder starting weird
Thanks Mark, Also the VG33E doesn't have the relearn procedure like yours. Something that was added to the VQ engines i believe.
Re: 98 Pathfinder starting weird
The TPS does not control ignition timing. It is just one of many inputs to the ECM, which takes all the signals and computes the desired timing for any situation.
Your KS code has probably been there for years. Save worrying about it for later, its NOT the problem.
You need to know what's going on with your fuel supply.
This is among the most basic things any engine needs to run right, and should be one of the first things that is confirmed when you are diagnosing many drivability problems.
Your KS code has probably been there for years. Save worrying about it for later, its NOT the problem.
You need to know what's going on with your fuel supply.
This is among the most basic things any engine needs to run right, and should be one of the first things that is confirmed when you are diagnosing many drivability problems.