30K = $900

[jmess]

This topic has been kicked around before but I still finding it amusing, more so since it just happened to me. I took my car in for an oil change at 30K and expected a service pack sales pitch but was pretty surprised at the total. There wasn't any high pressure but you have to believe a lot of folks get taken for the ride.

The inspection report flagged all my fluids as "visibly dirty" and needing to be flushed and replaced. Of course my PS fluid was on the list. The report even had color pictures of parts damaged by "dirty fluid". The quote to hook up all the flush/fluid replacement machines was $740. If "dirty fluid" is at pandemic levels at 30k shouldn't the PS fluid flush be included in the $900? Nobody applied any science like testing my coolant to see what condition it is really in. Nobody tested the brake fluid to see what the moisture content was.

Here is what $900 get you:

Oil change ( cost me $40 with one of their coupons and includes a safety inspection, wash, and vacuum)
replace air filters (did it myself in 5 minutes)
replace brake fluid (I will pay my mechanic buddy $50 and provide the fluid )
transmission flush/replace (Nissan doesn't approve of the flush process; I will do a drain and fill at 60k)
engine coolant flush/replace (Will do next fall)
wiper blades replace (did it myself in 10 minutes)
drive belts replace (30K is a little early, the belts still look great)
replace transfer case oil (my car is 2wd so do they drop the price?)
test the horn, lights, wipers (does your horn beep?)
replace differential oil (will do at 60K, easy to do myself)
rotate tires (I get it done free at Americas Tire)
correct tire pressure (free at any tire store and included with the oil change)
clean sunroof drains (do they make SR drain flush machine? Never had a SR drain issue, easy to fix if I did)
adjust parking brake (Need to check this, looking at the EX shop manual the adjustment process is easy)
replace cabin air filter (did it myself, 25 minutes)
perform 27 point inspection (the important stuff is included with an oil change)
What follows is part of the 27 points they already sold you??
inspect fuel an vapor lines (did it myself 10 minutes)
inspect brake pads and discs (part of the oil change inspection and the 27 points they already sold you)
inspect exhaust system (They do a visual during the oil change)
inspect suspension (did it myself 5 minutes)
inspect steering gear. (did it myself 5 minutes)

Their Total $899.
My total, about 1.5 hours and $150. If they would have offered me a more reasonable pack at say $300 I might have went for it if it covered what I felt was important.

[EXceptional]

Interesting points... thanks for sharing.

[sashki2]

shouldn't drive belts be covered under warranty?
Where's the cabin filter?

[TimGinCentralNJ]

shouldn't drive belts be covered under warranty?
Where's the cabin filter?

Technically, I believe they're considered "wear items" and are not covered. I just had mine replaced and (along with a Mobil1 oil change, and the air filter and cabin filters) paid about $400. It's possible I may have been ripped off more so than the 30k mile service JMess described above. Never again.

Tim

[TimGinCentralNJ]

transmission flush/replace (Nissan doesn't approve of the flush process; I will do a drain and fill at 60k)

Oh, please don't tell me that Infiniti has their own version of "lifetime" transmission fluid just like BMW tried to do from the late 90's through early 2000's to save on maintenance cost?

About 50% of the transmissions once they hit 100k (many even before then) basically self-destructed....all because BMW decided it would be cheaper for them if "lifetime" meant "100k miles". Even worse, they warned against 3rd party servicing of the transmission and stated doing so would void any existing warranties, so shops would refuse to work on them. Even ZF (the transmission manufacturer) finally changed their tune and began recommending fluid change intervals of at least 60k miles. The vast majority of folks I know (including myself) who ignored the warnings and found a shop to flush/refill their transmissions with full synthetic fluid are all doing just fine.

So JMess, any info on why Infiniti doesn't recommend any transmission fluid flushes/changes?

Thanks,
Tim

ps: Great information re: the 30k mile service. My next big one is either 60k or 75k, but it's gonna' take me a while to get there. I need to look into whether or not my Infiniti extended warranty has any stipulations about required maintenance being performed by Infiniti--or whether I can knock off the list all the things which I can do (fluid changes, filters, etc) and just have Infiniti do everything else so I can save some bread.

[jmess]

I don't know why Nissan doesn't specify the auto drain and fill interval. A lot of cars I have owned in the past had a 60K drain and fill interval; if you don't tow or use your car as a taxi cab. Next question is who will keep there EX beyond 60K? I like this car but I doubt I will see 80K in it.

For those who let the dealer do fluid changes the dealers tend to buy in bulk from vendors that aren't blessed by Nissan. The Nissan Automatic fluid goes for about $8-11 a quart. The dealer would rather pay a lot less and pocket the difference.

http://www.infinitig37.com/TSB/1SB16.pdf

Tim, if your extended warranty contract is with Nissan you don't have to go to the dealer for general service. I haven't read the Nissan contract but I have read Honda, Toyota-Lexus, and GM versions. In all cases you have to keep records that prove you followed the service intervals. Save your receipts for everything and document what you did. I took a photo copy of the 30K schedule 2 service to serve as my written check list.

Again, I have nothing against the local dealer and have paid them to do alignments and oil changes. If they would have offered me the 30K Nissan schedule II service at a reasonable price I probably would have went for it. Basically I am getting old and lazy and willing to pay a few dollars more to avoid getting my hands dirty.

[Avalanche325]

Wow. When I read the prices here I am so glad that I do my own work.

$400 for oil change, belt, cabin, and air filters?
Squeel like a pig boy. Wreeeeeeee! Wreeeeeeeee!

In New Zealeand a cam belt change on my Alfa would have been $1800. I did it for $120. It, however, was not an easy car to work on.

That's why my wife never complains if I buy tools.

[jmess]

Some may wonder how you can inspect a car without a lift or spending a lot of time jacking it up. I bought a set of Race Ramps in 05 so I could do oil changes on my C6 Corvette. I found the Ramps to be lot higher quality than the Vette which is why I still have them. I generally throw down a piece of cardboard to lay on.

http://www.raceramps.com/maintenance-se ... ramps.aspx

[Jason Tucker]

This is my 2010 AWD Journey company vehicle and I will put 120,000 on it and am on pace for that...2yrs old next month and 58,000 on it.

Just been and awesome vehicle without a minute in the shop for anything broken including warranty work...even that little rattle or something that usually drives you nuts...just awesome. But I long ago switched to my friends private garage and they do everything that Infinity does at a third of the cost. Oil change same oil infiniti uses...$36 and $20 more for my tires to be rotated.

There is such a list of crap that they want you to replace at their schedule and are crazy. The cabin filter will never be changed in my car just like the cabin filter in my prior two. They watch the belts and they are doing great...the brake pads are still at 60%...my fluids look great but will have them change the coolant and trans fluids at 60,000. The vehicle tracks great with 20,000 on these awesome Envigor's so no alignment adjustments needed. I run Silver level fuel through it and haven't seen the performance drop in the least. Getting 24.5/25.2 mpg at 72 on the highway which obviously is often. Now it will drop back down a bit with the winter upon us...but still not bad considering I have 300 hp at my beckon call.

Anyway...take a look at the service manual and intervals and find a nice friendly qualified garage to do the maintenance stuff. I must compliment the garage I go to...six mechanics going to tech school keeping up with things all the time...and I get a hand written thank you card with $20 coupon after every service call which is every other month.

[EXceptional]

Topic Hi-Jack!

Jason... do you have a Victory ?

How do you like it ?

[Jason Tucker]

Topic Hi-Jack!

Jason... do you have a Victory ?

How do you like it ?

Hi Dean:

Very good eye...still seems like not too many people have heard about the other American motorcycle company yet.

Love it...and thanks for asking. Took a test ride on a Victory Vision...all of five minutes and bought one the next day. Had a BMW LT fully loaded that was going on three years old and only had 8,400 miles on it because while it was a touring bike, your feet are locked into a certain riding position and I couldn't last more than an hour and had to get off and stretch.

When they designed the Victory Vision they took a person and put them in what would be a very comfortable riding position and built a bike around that...awesome!

[NJGuy]

getting back on topic...

This topic has been kicked around before but I still finding it amusing, more so since it just happened to me. I took my car in for an oil change at 30K and expected a service pack sales pitch but was pretty surprised at the total. There wasn't any high pressure but you have to believe a lot of folks get taken for the ride.

The inspection report flagged all my fluids as "visibly dirty" and needing to be flushed and replaced. Of course my PS fluid was on the list. The report even had color pictures of parts damaged by "dirty fluid". The quote to hook up all the flush/fluid replacement machines was $740. If "dirty fluid" is at pandemic levels at 30k shouldn't the PS fluid flush be included in the $900? Nobody applied any science like testing my coolant to see what condition it is really in. Nobody tested the brake fluid to see what the moisture content was.

Here is what $900 get you:

Oil change ( cost me $40 with one of their coupons and includes a safety inspection, wash, and vacuum)
replace air filters (did it myself in 5 minutes)
replace brake fluid (I will pay my mechanic buddy $50 and provide the fluid )
transmission flush/replace (Nissan doesn't approve of the flush process; I will do a drain and fill at 60k)
engine coolant flush/replace (Will do next fall)
wiper blades replace (did it myself in 10 minutes)
drive belts replace (30K is a little early, the belts still look great)
replace transfer case oil (my car is 2wd so do they drop the price?)
test the horn, lights, wipers (does your horn beep?)
replace differential oil (will do at 60K, easy to do myself)
rotate tires (I get it done free at Americas Tire)
correct tire pressure (free at any tire store and included with the oil change)
clean sunroof drains (do they make SR drain flush machine? Never had a SR drain issue, easy to fix if I did)
adjust parking brake (Need to check this, looking at the EX shop manual the adjustment process is easy)
replace cabin air filter (did it myself, 25 minutes)
perform 27 point inspection (the important stuff is included with an oil change)
What follows is part of the 27 points they already sold you??
inspect fuel an vapor lines (did it myself 10 minutes)
inspect brake pads and discs (part of the oil change inspection and the 27 points they already sold you)
inspect exhaust system (They do a visual during the oil change)
inspect suspension (did it myself 5 minutes)
inspect steering gear. (did it myself 5 minutes)

Their Total $899.
My total, about 1.5 hours and $150. If they would have offered me a more reasonable pack at say $300 I might have went for it if it covered what I felt was important.

I just completed an oil change this past weekend and performed lots of inspections while the wheels were off and I was under the car. Comparing your list with the service manual (SM) for the schedule 1 30K maintenance, here are the items on your dealer's list, along with the comments in the SM.

Oil change ( cost me $40 with one of their coupons and includes a safety inspection, wash, and vacuum) - given.

replace air filters (did it myself in 5 minutes) - due at 30k, could not be any easier.

replace brake fluid (I will pay my mechanic buddy $50 and provide the fluid ) - Not even listed under the "Premium" Maintenance. SM only calls for inspecting the brake fluid level periodically (according to Nissan, each time you check the oil or refuel), which obviously should be between min and max; the SM says nothing about fluid condition though. However, the maintenance section does have the procedure for brake fluid replacement. Although Nissan doesn't specify when to change this, it's not a bad idea you're having it done.

transmission flush/replace (Nissan doesn't approve of the flush process; I will do a drain and fill at 60k) - SM calls for an inspection of the ATF at 30K. It only calls for replacement if towing a trailer, using a camper or a car-top carrier, or driving on rough or muddy roads. Further, the SM calls for ATF replacement if it shows signs of being varnished, milky white or cloudy, or having a large amount of metal powder mixed in. My ATF looked incredibly clean, but I might do a drain and fill at 60K or earlier depending on future inspections. You might want to pull the A/T dipstick to see if the ATF is "visibly dirty" like the dealership claimed. I couldn't see the dipstick until I removed the plastic engine cover.

engine coolant flush/replace (Will do next fall)- SM says: After 60,000 miles (96,000 km) or 48 months, replace every 30,000 miles (48,000 km) or 24 months. Also has a "*", which says: *Maintenance items and intervals with “*” are recommended by INFINITI for reliable vehicle operation. The owner need not perform such maintenance in order to maintain the emission warranty or manufacturer recall liability. Other maintenance items and intervals are required.

wiper blades replace (did it myself in 10 minutes) - Common sense should prevail here.

drive belts replace (30K is a little early, the belts still look great) - SM says: After 60,000 miles (96,000 km) or 48 months, inspect every 15,000 miles (24,000 km) or 12 months. Replace the drive belts if found damaged or if the auto belt tensioner reading reaches the maximum limit.

replace transfer case oil (my car is 2wd so do they drop the price?) - Funny. For the AWD owners: If towing a trailer, using a camper or a car-top carrier, or driving on rough or muddy roads, change (not just inspect) fluid /oil at every 30,000 miles (48,000 km) or 24 months.

test the horn, lights, wipers (does your horn beep?) – Well, sometimes people are oblivious to burned out tail lights. SM also says to check headlight aim; but really, I’ve never had mine need adjustment in any of the cars I’ve owned.

replace differential oil (will do at 60K, easy to do myself) – again, SM only calls for replacement if towing a trailer, using a camper or a car-top carrier, or driving on rough or muddy roads. And I thought rear differentials typically had a long change interval? It probably makes sense to change if you see metal filings in the fluid. Also, I posted some general maintenance questions in the Infiniti Online Mechanic forum; the one member who responded recommended to do a few drain and fills of the rear diff early on.

rotate tires (I get it done free at Americas Tire) – Due at 30k. SM says every 7500 miles.

correct tire pressure (free at any tire store and included with the oil change) – I guess this is for the people who are clueless about how a car works.

clean sunroof drains (do they make SR drain flush machine? Never had a SR drain issue, easy to fix if I did) – No mention in maintenance section SM. It’s a nice reminder though if you happen to open your moon roof a lot and frequently park under trees.

adjust parking brake (Need to check this, looking at the EX shop manual the adjustment process is easy)- SM says: should be checked on a regular basis, such as when performing periodic maintenance, cleaning the vehicle, etc. It also says to check that the pedal has the proper travel and make sure that the vehicle is held securely on a fairly steep hill when only the parking brake is applied.

replace cabin air filter (did it myself, 25 minutes) – due at 30k. Usually a rip-off at almost all dealerships.

perform 27 point inspection (the important stuff is included with an oil change)
What follows is part of the 27 points they already sold you?? – You have to wonder sometimes how they price this stuff…

inspect fuel an vapor lines (did it myself 10 minutes) – due at 30k, with a “*”. * Maintenance items and intervals with “*” are recommended by INFINITI for reliable vehicle operation. The owner need not perform such maintenance in order to maintain the emission warranty or manufacturer recall liability. Other maintenance items and intervals are required.

inspect brake pads and discs (part of the oil change inspection and the 27 points they already sold you) – due at 30k. I bet that they just do a quick visual inspection to check for obvious issues and estimate the thickness left on the pads. The SM has the measurement limits for pad thickness, rotor thickness, rotor thickness variation (measured at 8 positions), and runout. Do you think the tech honestly brings out their calipers and other equipment to measure this stuff if the owner did not report braking issues?

inspect exhaust system (They do a visual during the oil change) – Interestingly, the SM says that this should be checked periodically (e.g. each time you check the engine oil or refuel). Next time I gas up my EX, you’ll find me under the car .

inspect suspension (did it myself 5 minutes)
inspect steering gear. (did it myself 5 minutes) – both due at 30k.

Other items listed in SM due at 30k that may or may not fall under your dealer’s 27 point inspection:
Brake lines and cables – Inspect.
Propeller shaft and drive shaft boots (AWD models) – Inspect.