2003 pathfinder with 2001 motor. no start/ no spark

[5implejack]

long story short bought a 03 pathy, motor was shot (warped heads, overheating, high mileage bah blah parts motor was cheaper than parts o fix), swapped in a 01.5 motor. both motors started up and ran perfectly before swap. Wont start has no spark.
swapped the timing plate for crankshaft position sensor so i could keep using the 03 sensor since the 01 was a different operating voltage. i didnt swap harnesses or ecu because from what i could see/found online there wasnt going to be any issues using the 03 stuff and i was alot less work. the o1 motor has a few more sensors on it (2 camshaft sensors on drivers side head while the 03 only had one per head. also the 01 had a second crankshaft sensor? on the crank pulley) those were all left unplugged since there was no connector on the harness for it and i assumed if the 03 motor didnt need the sensors and the ecu was set up for not having them there wouldnt be an issue. so far ive checked all the fuses, tried both the 01 and 03 crank sensor, checked all the grounds but got nothing. any ideas?

[fleurys]

any codes that you could read and help you in a direction ? Do you have signal from the crank sensor ?

[5implejack]

i have code 0355 (crankshaft sensor) with the 01 sensor on the motor no codes with the 03 sensor

[fleurys]

i have code 0355 (crankshaft sensor) with the 01 sensor on the motor no codes with the 03 sensor

0355 ??? Do you mean 0335 ?

[fleurys]

If you meant p0335, then I am finding a few things in the fsm.

Like you said, your 03 ECM is looking for a crank signal voltage of 1.5 - 1.6V . Your 01.5 engine and Crank sensor will output 2.3-2.4V That's the first issue. The second is that the 03 crank sensor is made from a magnet and a Hall Integrated circuit. The signal that it is returning to the ecm seems different than from the 01.5 crank sensor.

The 01.5 sensor is made from a magnet, core and coil.. so no IC or HAll effect...

I would try putting back the 03 sensor then somehow confirm that you are receiving around 1.5-1.6 V on the yellow wire.

I will have a look if the cam sensor is also different... (Did you put the 01 or 03 cam sensor ?)

[5implejack]

yes sorry i meant o335. theres no code with the 03 sensor in there only with the 01.5. right now the only sensor i changed was the crank sensor. i assumed the car would throw a code if the other sensors are wrong. would it be possible for the cam sensors to output the signal at the same voltage bbut different intervals? only asking because the timing plate on the 01.5 has teeth like a starter ring on the flywheel while the 03 has a more smooth plate with a few notches cut in it ad different intervals

[fleurys]

I just verified and yes the cam sensors are completely different animals altogether...

The 03 ECM is looking for a DC voltage between 1 to 4V..... and there is 2 of them.

The 01.5 cam sensor is shooting back AC voltage of about 4.2 Volts...

So I'm thinking you do not have a cam sensor code because the ECM might see the good voltage....but it's not the right kind of voltage...

The output of those two cam sensors is completely different... So I would put back the 03 cam sensors on your 01.5 engine and go from there...

Now hopefully your 01.5 engine has the real estate to install the bank2 cam sensor...because the ecm is looking for it...

That's a good one...keep us informed..we'll make it work .

[5implejack]

awesome thanks for the info i will swap those when i get home tonight. from what i can see the sensors looked the same on the outside of the motor and look similar from what images i can find online. fingers crossed

[5implejack]

alright so i swapped the sensors and nothing. now im getting codes p0335 and p0345 (crank position sensor and bank 2 cam sensor). the 01 sensors are identical to the 03 ones as far as physical size and look

[fleurys]

Did you install both cam sensors ?

[5implejack]

yes

[fleurys]

Since the sensors between the 2001.5 and 2003 are completly different (inside), I'm starting to think that maybe the cam sprockets have something to do with the signal the sensor returns...

Here's a passage from the FSM 2001.5 about the sam sensor :
The camshaft position sensor (PHASE) is located on the engine
front cover facing the camshaft sprocket. It detects the cylinder No.
signal.
The sensor consists of a permanent magnet, core and coil.
When engine is running, the gap between the sensor and the
camshaft sprocket will periodically change. Permeability near the
sensor also changes.
Due to the permeability change, the magnetic flux near the core is
changed. Therefore, the voltage signal generated in the coil is
changed.
The ECM receives the voltage signal and detects the cylinder No.
signal.

Here's the same passage about the 2003 cam sensor:
The camshaft position sensor (PHASE) senses the retraction of
intake valve camshaft to identify a particular cylinder. The crankshaft
position sensor (POS) senses the piston position. When the
crankshaft position sensor (POS) system becomes inoperative, the
camshaft position sensor (PHASE) provides various controls of
engine parts instead, utilizing timing of cylinder identification signals.
The sensor consists of a permanent magnet and Hall IC.
When engine is running, the high and low parts of the teeth cause
the gap with the sensor to change. The changing gap causes the
magnetic field near the sensor to change. Due to the changing
magnetic field, the voltage from the sensor changes.

I don't know about you, but this seems to suggest they don't measure the same thing... Could the cam sprockets be different (specifically where the sensor stands) ??

I have verified the part numbers at nissan and there IS a different part number for the 2001-2002 intake cam sprockets versus the 2003-2004 ones... but I cannot find any pictures good enough for me to see if there is some differences....

Do you have any kind of device to measure wavelength or signal like a pico or portable scope ? With that you could confirmed or not if any signal is coming from the sensor and if it is the good wavelength etc...

Also in the manual, they specify that while cranking, you should have at least 10.5 V at the battery if not, these codes could occur...

S.

[5implejack]

1) battery is new
2) from what i can see through the sensor holes the cam sprockets look roughly similar (ill pull the valve cover/timing cover whatever else is in the way off tonight)
3) the 01 motor has a second cam sensor lower down on bank 2. any chance thats the sensor the manual is talking about?

[fleurys]

According to the documentation, the 01.5 engine should only have 1 cam sensor.... You say it has 2 ?

The 03 engine should have 2, and yes, the p0345 code is for the Bank2 sensor..

[5implejack]

the 01 actually has 3. 2 in the same spot as the 03 and one below the one on bank 2

[5implejack]

ok just pulled of the cam gear cover they are different. 01 has 3 evenly spaced grooves while the o3 has 4 sets of evenly spaced grooves but 2 sets are double grooves -_- so i guess thats next on the swap list haha

[fleurys]

Great.. This is super news !... It has to be that... There is really not anything else I can think of that would create the wrong signal for the ecm... Keep at it and let me know when you're done... I can't wait to know if you get spark after this...

[fleurys]

Did you get further ?

[5implejack]

not yet ive been super busy trying to get my 240 finished so the pathfinders not in the garage yet. at this point (and while im waiting for to get it back inside) im gonna start tearing apart the 03 motor at this point it might just be easier to do the head gaskets as long as the heads arent warped since i have no idea what else ill need to change as well. plus if i do that i can get some cometic gaskets and arp studs to make use of this eaton m90 i have sitting around.

[fleurys]

That's too bad.. I would have loved to see if the camshaft gears would have done it... Well good luck with the 03 head gasket
S.

[5implejack]

Well the head gaskey is a b**** so before I spend 200 on parts I'm gonna try to swap the cam timing gears. Already got the 03 ones off gonna try to swap them on later today

[fleurys]

Good luck and I'll be waiting for the results...

[Buzzman]

What about the throttle body? Aren't they different too?
The 2001 would have a mechanical cable to the gas pedal. I was under the impression the 2003-2004 were fly by wire?

[5implejack]

1st off sorry for the delay been super busy but...
Buzzman: yes the throttle bodies are different both drive by cable/wire and diamter. i swapped the whole intake so it all fits.
Fleurys: it worked! sort of... it started. was making a grinding noise so i killed it immediately but it started and ran. tomorrow im going to double check the cams and make sure the flex plate/tq converter are tight. im just hoping the cams arent a slightly different angle/duration that would cause interference

[fleurys]

That's great news... now.. grinding noise ? maybe a video would help figure it out ? could it be timing chain guides ? or water pump ? let me know what you find !.

[5implejack]

alright the noise is the starter. took starter out (cranking over by hand) and noise went away but came back when i put it in hmmm.... i measured the 01 and 03 starters to see if there any difference in length of gear and distance from casting didnt see any. gonna measure starter gear diameter and castings of the motor. maybe the 01 starter mounts slightly closer to the block? or maybe a slightly different flywheel diameter?

[5implejack]

ok just had to shim the starter out 3.5mm. im thinking either the flywheel shims are different between the 2 years or maybe the ring gear sticks out further compared to the motor. regardless no more noise but now it wont start? has code 1065 all of the sudden. all i touched was the starter and put the rad/fan back in

[fleurys]

1065 : ecm backup power supply... check your fuse number 62 (7.5A).. also, you should have battery voltage (with the key OFF), on pin 121 of the ecm harness side connector. (121 is on the right side when you face the open connector. It is the most right and up pins... basically upper right corner (there is a arrangement of 8 pins on that side).

Good find on the starter....!

[5implejack]

update: unfortunately i may have to give up on this. currently starts right up and runs makes a very mild clunking/knocking noise. main issue however is that it wont move at all. ive let it run in park for a while, checked the atf, topped it off but refuses make any effort to move. just sits in neutral and revs.
also shifter linkage is moving and the rpm drops/increases like its going into gear but it doesnt seem to actually shift. now its also throwing the crankcase sensor (p0335) as well as the 1065.
cant really spend any more money on it at the moment so might have to throw in the towel or at least hold off. if i find the funds in the near future may be looking into some other motor to swap in.

From what i found so far to make a 01 motor run in a 03 swap the harness/ecu unfortunately didnt have A harness from a basic search i thought the motors were the same. they are not. cams gears, flywheel, sensors and intake/tb are all different. so theres some probably not useful information gained from this whole en devour
thank you guys for all the help learned alot on this POS.
maybe ill swap something stupid into it who knows

[EdBwoy]

...checked the atf, topped it off but refuses make any effort to move. just sits in neutral and revs.
also shifter linkage is moving and the rpm drops/increases like its going into gear but it doesnt seem to actually shift.

This is pointing to a transmission issue, no?

But sorry it had to come to this. You gotta know when to fold em sometimes.