kevinis wrote:Brian; thanks for the info (a little overwhelming for a non gear head like myself, but still really helpful).
Thanks also for the link to the FSM.For some reason, AT, BR and BT won't open.
Fortunately, EC opened quite nicely (what an awesome resource).
I Printed out EC-4 which shows the codes for cylinder misfires and pages EC-260 thru 264 which walk a tech thru diagnosing a misfire.
I'm gonna bring those pages to the mechanic and also give him the link to the whole FSM.
You'd probably mess your pants if you knew how much I paid for the NGK's.This is not the kind of mechanic where you can bring your own parts; they want theirmarkup; don't know what their wholesale price was but I found those plugs onlinefor $11.37 each; I paid them $28.00 each (ouch) but that's what happens when you don't do this sort of thing yourself (see how fortunate you are???).
In any case, if he can't replicate the problem by late afternoon today, I'm just gonna pick the car up and wait for it to happen again; maybe make a deal with him that when it does, I'll bring it to him right then and there and he'll drop what he's doing and connect the consult or scanner or whatever he's using. Hopefully after not fixing the problem three times he won't feel like that's an unreasonable request.
Thanks again,
Kevin
On my failed coil, the translucent window looked a little darker. Difficult to explain, but compare your suspect one to a couple of good ones and see if you notice any difference.Q45tech wrote:On 97 and newer Cima [Q] 9 out of 10 times the coils are the problem due to a design change and integrating the ignitors [transistors] inside the coil housing.
kevinis wrote:Well the coil...
That's the weird thing.
It was the first thing they changed.
The new one (at a cost of $158.00) only gave me no misfires for one day.
Before replacing the coil, the #3 cylinder was giving a code.
The next day with the new coil I had the same symptom feeling and hearing the "chug"what I would call a misfire.
Even though it was "misfiring" all over the place with the new coil, this time it was notgiving a code. That's when they put the old coil back on and installed the new plugs.
After that, ran perfect for 8 days, then the day I did all these crazy errands with varyingtimes with the engine off (from 10 minutes to 2 hours) it was after the last errandthat lasted about 30 minutes (meaning the car was parked and turned off for 30 minutes)that I turned on the A/C (not having it on previously) and after about a mile at a red light it started. Then again after being parked for 3 hours.
After two days with the mechanic it hasn't done it since in varying engine temps and driving conditions.
So I guess I wait til next time it happens, and the mechanic will have his Scope and Scanner that combined cost more than the car itself ready
Well, if there is dirt in the sensors (MAF & ???), that will be a problem.Qproject wrote:kevinis it's easy, just remove the plastic engine cover and you'll see like 3 sensor connections. disconnect, clean out the dirt and reconnect.
maxnix and the other guy till this day, STILL DON'T HAVE THE DIAGNOSIS TO THIS.
Brian, I have a feeling that idle hiccup you describe in your above quote is exactly what I have felt and finally determined it to be the idle momentarily dropping due to the aux. condenser fan starting up...its like a very short 150-200rpm drop in idle speed,then back to normal as the ecu/aac readjusts idle speed.....I cleaned MAF for the first time in 216,000 miles yesterday...it looked clean even before I gave it a shot of CRC MAF cleaner. Cleaned throttlebody for the first time in 101,000 miles, little dark residue drained out, not as much as I expected...maybe Byron cleaned it last fall when he did underplenum work?maxnix wrote:Well, if there is dirt in the sensors (MAF & ???), that will be a problem.
Actually, I was able to diagnose mine and repair it with a new coilpack. However, gradually a very slight hiccup that wouldn't throw a code crept back in randomly, only on a hot day with AC on in gear at idle with brake applied. When I did the VC gaskets, completely cleaned plenum, lower runners, IAC adn EGR valves and inner EGR tube in the plenum. Not even a hint since then in 105° F heat. Runs like new.
kevinis wrote:Wow; you guys are awesome (wish you were here to attack this).
Here's the latest as of 30 seconds ago....
Well lets start with this, as for in depth mechanical stuff I'm really a dolt; a buffoon if you will.So while changing the car battery is something I can do; the other stuff is probably more risk to the car than potential problem resolution.
I will say that when I first got the car, it was running hotter than my '95 ever did and I heardthe electric assist fans running driving around at low speeds. Odd, I thought.When I looked in the engine compartment, I noticed coolant sprayed around and so removed the shield (just above the radiator) and lo and behold, when the previous owners mechanic put in those AC delco plugs and replaced belts and hoses, they left the hose that connects to the neck of the radiator cap that goes to the coolant recovery bottle unconnected. So I found and fixed that (and added a gallon of coolant YIKES!!! yes it was that low).
Anyway, that's about as good as I get.BTY I haven't heard the aux (electric) cooling fans go on since).The car (engine temp) always runs slightly below 1/2 hot (not dead on half like my 95 did)
I did remove the plastic cover last night, q tips in hand, but without a picture of a "Sensor"didn't know what to clean (like I said, I'm a dolt). There are what I would call small wiring harness plug-ins. I was only able to unconnect one (the brown one), but again, I don't know if that was even a sensor (yes I did clean the inside of it).
Okay, so, on to 30 seconds ago; I started her up let it idle in park for about a minute or two. No chug.
Put in reverse, brake pedal applied...chugPut in drive, brake pedal applied...chug
Put in park (now idling higher) turned on A/C (my electric aux fans do not come on at this point) NO CHUG.
Get back in car, A/C still on, put in reverse, brake pedal applied...chug...chug.chug.....Same thing in drive.
So, low idle in gear and we get the chug, or hickup or possible misfire.
Same exact scenario last night after the car was not driven since Friday Afternoon.
So, it sorta sounds like what Brian experienced; perhaps not a true misfire any more(but it did initially throw a code before the new NGK's were installed). While I'm notsome computer, the end result still feels the same and sounds the same behind the wheel.
Throttle body... was supposedly cleaned in April by the previous owners mechanic (when they put in the AC delco plugs, new belts, hoses and left the coolant overflow hose unconnected).
I suspect the soonest I can get this back to the mechanic is Tuesday afternoon as he will likelywant to keep the car, and I will not be able to leave it with him before then.
I don't like the sounds of new valve cover gaskets etc; they've already quoted meat least $350.00 to do that (noticed the beginnings of a slight leak).
If those little "wire harness" things are "sensors" how do I unplug them without breaking anything. Is the little "wire harness" thing that goes into the shield right before theair cleaner the mass air flow sensor? should I try to q tip that????
Oh another thing, I mentioned I printed out the EC pages and brought them to the mechanic;he was like "I don't really need that, we have Mitchell, NAPA " and I think All Data was the third one. I had to convince him to take the pages (he did to humor me I think).
He did at least go thru the 11 "check" items on page EC-260 with me; I believe there were only two items on that list he had not felt satisfied were okay (magnetized signal plate) and I can't remember the other one.
So there you have it.Let me know your thoughts.
Thank you all...
Kevin
Might help if you define "sensor clip" and "u."Qproject wrote:u have to clean out-disconnect reconnect all sensor clips. not JUST ONE.
Not that much variance for me, maybe at most a 50 rpm drop, more like 25 rpm. But plenum was coated although EGR and IAC were fine from 20K mile previous cleaning. TB was coated. Of course, all the VH41DE have the integrated TCS throttly body immediately before the actual TB, so somewhat different from the 1996 VH45DE.qship96 wrote:
Brian, I have a feeling that idle hiccup you describe in your above quote is exactly what I have felt and finally determined it to be the idle momentarily dropping due to the aux. condenser fan starting up...its like a very short 150-200rpm drop in idle speed,then back to normal as the ecu/aac readjusts idle speed.....