12-13 qt

Information on the naturally-aspirated KA24E and KA24DE engines.
ic4g63
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how much money does it take to put a 240 into the 13's?and how about 12's?i know they are ment for handling, but im just curious.

also, what can make the engine have alot more torgue? i heard it is underpowered(no offence)


trpower7
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As I make my glorious return to the boards, and now that we finally have enough info to let me return to my favorite retort, I tell you once and for all, that the key to higher horsepower and torque, so that you can "run 12s or 13s" is THE LITTLE BLUE SEARCH BUTTON IN THE TOP RIGHT OF YOUR SCREEN. All this has been discussed ad nauseum, go do some reading.

ic4g63
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yeah, i tried that

and i normally dont ask blunt questions like this because on dsmtalk we have a red button and all stupid questions are refered to it.

sorry again, my apologize just that i couldnt find anything when i searched.

trpower7
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No problem, if I were you I'd just go to teh CA18DET or SR20DET or even (for the courageous of us) KA24DET sections of the forum and read the posts. There aren't too many, and they'll give you the knowledge you need if you want to build a car to run those kinds of times. And don't be surprised if people here are a little more cautious and realistic about their cars than alot of the DSM heads who claim that you can run 22 PSI on stock internals and run 12s and 13s. It's going to take some serious money to bring a 240 into that range (by serious I mean more than two grand :D

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Exar-Kun
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uh I would think 22psi would get you mroe than 12's man...

christ, that a LOT of boost, supposing you modded everything else similarly, you'd ahve one ****ing fast car.....possibly high 10's maybe....

just speculation tho....ignore my rambling.-chet

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TrueSlide
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uh I would think 22psi would get you mroe than 12's man...

He was referring to the DSM ppl that try to pursuade someone to buy a ****ty *** eclipse by them saying(and swearing it can be done) they can run 22PSI on a stock turbo and internals. What fuggin retards.

QUICKFLOW240
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It is possible to boost 22psi on an eclipse with stock turbo and internals. The only problem with that is, it may spike to 22 then settle at about 15. However with a turbo upgrade, i/c piping, injectors and fuel pump it is possible to boost up to 20psi in a 4g63. You guys need to understand that just because Nissans can't do it doesn't meen that no one can. Don't get me wrong I love my Nissan and I would never give it up for another DSM but DSM makes a realy impressive motor.

ic4g63
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dsms can handle 22 psi, but not effieciently. the stock turbo on a 1st gen can handle up to 19 psi i beleive while still not blowing hot air. but a 2nd gen can only run about 15 effiecently.

but for a 1st gen to run more than 15 psi, either bigger injectors or racing fuel is needed.

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Exar-Kun
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a what? t25 can run 22psi?

I find that doubtfull, and handling 22psi even for a spike very hard to believe. A guy I know ran 20psi on his toyota MR2, boost controller and everything and blew up his intake....

-chetand 22 psi is a lot of boost for any engine, nissan, toyota, mitsu or not....and hard to handle ons tock internals without some dammage or inevitable aprts failure(even other than the engine)EDIT: talked to allan at ballanced performance today about this issue(becuase I was curious), he said "well sure, if it never saw peak boost....hell, any car can if it never spools, but a stock internal, and mostly external engine running nearly 2 bars?..well, send them my business card for the engine rebuild chet!"

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TrueSlide
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DSM makes a realy impressive motorconsidering they all tend to blow up around 100k miles and 240s seem to last into the 200k range.

It is possible to boost 22psi on an eclipse with stock turbo and internals.

Hmm, they must be some strong cast pistons.You guys need to understand that just because Nissans can't do it doesn't meen that no one can.

Nope, Iam not saying that, I have seen plenty of RX-7s, Supras, etc. etc. run the much and they are not nissan. But a eclipse? come on, press pause on the remote, remove your hand from the F&F movie, put your hands in the air, you are under arrest for violating section 7A code 3.4.1 that states anyone who thinks a girls car can handle a ****load from the factory without any upgrades is to be shot on sight.

Come on!! AWD eclipses, they suck *** 2, my 240 hangs with them and IAM ALL STOCK. Oh ya not to mention, why is they seem to have a bad problem with blowing up and trannys locking up?

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TrueSlide
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UNREALIABLE!!!!!

ic4g63
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umm, a stock 1st or 2nd gen dsm(The non turbos dont count as a dsm) run about 15-15.4 stock and a 240 runs about a 16. how do you figure you "hung with him"? One secound is a big difference when racing a qt. also, i have liked dsm's before the fast and the furious ever was heard of.

trust me, i love 240's and plan on getting one or a dsm. but i have seen a dsm run 12.5 with breathing mods, a mbc and a boost gauge(more important than the controler). yes is was on race gass, and yes i can proove it.

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Exar-Kun
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ic4g63 wrote:. but i have seen a dsm run 12.5 with breathing mods, a mbc and a boost gauge(more important than the controler). yes is was on race gass, and yes i can proove it.


PROVE IT. oh yeah, and how is a boost gauge more important than a boost controller????

ic4g63
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the boost gauge is more important because if you dont have it, then you might as well not have a boost controller because you wont know how much psi is being forced into your engine, and if more than 15 psi is ran on a stock fuel system, detonation will occur giving you a good reason to have ur car towed to a shop.

i will have a link to my proof within 10-15 min.

ic4g63
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click the link below. i couldnt get the movie to download, but maybe you can.

with a 1st gen he ran 12.5 @ 109.2

http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/...%E4ss

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TrueSlide
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umm, a stock 1st or 2nd gen dsm(The non turbos dont count as a dsm) run about 15-15.4 stock and a 240 runs about a 16.

15-15.4?? You might wanna check your source again. The 1st gen turbos only run a 15.4. Ya very impressive for a motor with a turbo :)how do you figure you "hung with him"? One secound is a big difference when racing a qt.

I think I would know If I hung w/ him or not, I was racing the race, you werent and sorry It was alot less then a second :)

Hmm at the track 1 GST has beat me, by a .08-.1 and the GSX was by a .15-.2

also, i have liked dsm's before the fast and the furious ever was heard of.

I'm sorry

NOTE: Exar-Kun, boost gauge is severe performance, especially if it lights up/white face or is digital(+20PSI)

Also its alot more important then a controller b/c you cant adjust boost with a gauge :)

ic4g63
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[quote=" TrueSlide NOTE: Exar-Kun, boost gauge is severe performance, especially if it lights up/white face or is digital(+20PSI)

Also its alot more important then a controller b/c you cant adjust boost with a gauge :) [/quote]

umm yea, i never said a boost gauge added performance, i said it was *neccesary* in order to adjust boost. which means if you want a boost controller, you must first obtain a boost gauge, which in this case makes it more important. and if your going to say "why not use the stock one" your and idiot because the stock boost gauge in a dsm is VERY inaccurate due to the fact that it measures boost by calculating exhaust temp and exhaust pressure.

i have been on this site for a very short amount of time and people like you are making this board look closeminded, but i have also noticed alot of good people at this site that have alot knowledge that i look forward to learing from.

also i dont think a dsm is better than a 240sx, they both have their advantages.

240:handling and has a great potential for quartermile/ and other type of racing once a turbo is added or a swap is done.

dsm: responds very well to mods, is great in the winter.

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TrueSlide
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I never said anything about a boost controller without a boost gauge. :) Whats the point of getting a boost gauge w/ out the controller??

i have been on this site for a very short amount of time and people like you are making this board look closeminded, but i have also noticed alot of good people at this site that have alot knowledge that i look forward to learing from.

Thats great, still doesnt make up for the reliability of a dsm. Iam glad to be close minded, it makes me think on a more realistic level, not the F&F level. I respect other cars and cars within the same class as the 240.

Until I actually see a dyno sheet from these "mod happy" DSMs, I will not believe :) The ricers all say the same thing about the factory turbo and cast pistons, but yet no one has supplied a dyno sheet to prove it.

I have seen some dsms run, And they were far from stock :) Yes a DSM can be made to be fast, just not from the factory.

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Exar-Kun
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yeah, like I said, allan at ballacned performance..http://www.balancedperformance.com/index.shtml(PLUG! CHA-CHING!)

discussed this with me...and I trust these guys on this subject. internals of that mitsu are gonna go boom......hell, even sport compact car admited stock internals suck then you "force mod" a car, IE bolt things on....they ruined their project Rx-7, and showed evidence of it in one of thier mags...lemme get it...yeah it was 2 months ago, its got a skyline gt-R on the cover....

anyways, yeah trueslide, I'd agree with the ligh-up boost gague..thats like 10mph on your top speed....esscpecially if you got one, and no boost controller....w00h000.

no seriously man, I respect everyone oinion about running stuff, but cast internals on a mitsu arent good for boosting the car up(unlike the sr20det forged internals, honda internals..) and alan, steve and jeff at bapo(see above, its the nickname) say that nearly every turbo eclipse with over 14psi on stock internals comes backwith problems.....

-chet

ic4g63
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i think that video is sufficient proof or a dsm's modibility, wouldn't you agree?

also, why do you constantly associate dsm's with fnf and ricers?i never saw a dsm in fnf, i saw an eclipse with a neon engine in it, could that be what you are getting mixed up with a dsm?

also, dsms are reliable, they just need alittle more attention than most other cars.;)

and there have been many dsms that have seen over 200k miles. it all matters on how well you treat your car. its like a women, she likes to have sex, but too much sex will make her leave.i can tell you are very close with your hand.

ic4g63
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TrueSlide
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all matters on how well you treat your car. its like a women, she likes to have sex, but too much sex will make her leave.i can tell you are very close with your hand.

Do you really want me to respond on that? I really wouldnt want to hurt your feelings. :)

never saw a dsm in fnf, i saw an eclipse with a neon engine in it, could that be what you are getting mixed up with a dsm?

If Iam not mistaken, DSM = Diamond Star Motors, hmm whats that make mitsubishi. And you said u never saw a DSM in the movie, but you saw a eclipse w/ a neon engine? Please explain.

also, why do you constantly associate dsm's with fnf and ricers?

Do you get out much? Look around whats in the TOP 3 Rice Cars?

Neons and eclipses are in their. And wait.. arent they DSM?

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TrueSlide
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Oh ya, those were some nice dyno sheets. 400+ HP is always acceptable as fast. :)

QUICKFLOW240
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Ok how about finding me a 240 with bolt ons run a 12.6 . I never said anything about them being reliable trust me I replaced the shortblock in a friend of mine's gsx about 4 months ago. Now please tell me who doesn't believe that a dsm with bolt ons could run mid 12's. I would really like to bet lots of money on that one. And don't come to me with your b/s facts if you're not fast enough to prove that they can't run 12's don't even respond to this.

As much as it discuss me to say this it is also true that a gsr integra with I/H/E, v-afc, a hondata ECU, and really good tuning is capable of running 12's. I know you guys will think I'm nuts but I'm not at all a Honda fan it's just reality.

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TrueSlide
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Sure A GSX can run 12s with bolts. Look it comes factory turbo, bigger bolt on turbo, Intercooler, etc. etc. So who gives a **** if they can run a 12.6 with bolts ons?? I rather have a 14second car that is reliable then a 12 sec car Ill only get a few runs outta of it before new gaskets, tranny, turbo, pistons, etc. etc.

And don't come to me with your b/s facts if you're not fast enough to prove that they can't run 12's don't even respond to this.

WTF???!?!?! And how fast are you?

Now please tell me who doesn't believe that a dsm with bolt ons could run mid 12's.

Iam sure their are a few that can run 12s. Plenty of **** can run 12s with bolt ons.

Ok how about finding me a 240 with bolt ons run a 12.6 .

Does a bolt-on turbo count? considering it is bolt-on!!

QUICKFLOW240
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I was never the one to say that I was closed minded about other cars. I never accused any DSM owner of being a liar when he told me he was running 12's. Therefor my 15.3 really wouldn't make alot of diference due to the fact that I respect DSM's for being fast. And once again I NEVER SAID THEY WERE RELIABLE.

ic4g63
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yea i guess you can bolt on a turbo, but how is it going to spool if it doesnt have pressure from the exhaust? oopps, now you need to modify the exhaust dont you?

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Exar-Kun
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[quote=" QUICKFLOW240 As much as it discuss me to say this it is also true that a gsr integra with I/H/E, v-afc, a hondata ECU, and really good tuning is capable of running 12's. I know you guys will think I'm nuts but I'm not at all a Honda fan it's just reality.[/quote]

uh.....dude. how extensive of I/H/E mods are you talking about? last I saw my friends integra GS-R with all those mods your talking about, and more ...lightened flywheel, clutch, uderdrive pulleys, new fuel rail....

still only ran a 13.8.....

I mean, sure a turbo integra, or a built up one can run 12's...Im just wondering what "tuning" your talking about...im figuring new heads, cams and more....

which to me, dont count as bolt-ons.-chet

oh and Igc436, or whatever, of course you'd ahve to change the manifold to put on a turbo.....and if you cinsider that "exhaust" then thats legit, because you were talking about "breathing" mods earlier on the DSM's

and yes, I';ve seen eclipses run mid 12's on stock internals...they just blow up....a LOT.(sometimes the center differential blows up right on the track!)

the mitsu makes a good platfomr for turbo building, but its limited by its stock internals, I;ve seen quite a few really fast ones, but for my money, I bought my 240sx because its got much more flexibility with the sr20DET swap, and the suspension and body/frame/chasis are much more to my liking than the mitsu...

QUICKFLOW240
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well as far as tuning I was speaking of dyno tuning the V-AFC and hondata. buying parts and putting them on are not what makes any car fast.

As for comparing a DSM and a 240 there really is no comparison origionally we were discussing the motor not the overall performance of the car. Everyone knows that a 240 will out handle any DSM regardless of the mods. They weren't designed for the twisties and nowhere in this thread did anyone ever say that they were.

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TrueSlide
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yea i guess you can bolt on a turbo, but how is it going to spool if it doesnt have pressure from the exhaust? oopps, now you need to modify the exhaust dont you?

Bolt on exhaust manifold usually comes with the kits :)

Iam not dissing on DSM, I just want the owners and ppl to realize before you make belive that a DSM will run 22PSI on stock internals/fuel/turbo, B/C IT CANT, well it can and will probley look good as **** for the first 10 ft of the track. Misinforming makes ppl blow their cars up!! Cast pistons = bad, cant handle much, little *** t25 turbo, small, probley spikes alot when moving up into bigger range.

And Iam sure you could boost a 240 upto 22PSI, but nobody only wants 12seconds of fame, b/c thats all you will get outta of it before it blows!!

And I have 2 seen many many DSMs blow up at the track, some trying to boost really high and blowing up right at launch. And I have seen some run their asses off.


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